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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Krowbar who wrote (39013)6/2/1999 10:48:00 PM
From: robnhood  Respond to of 108807
 
<<Anybody got answers?>>

I don't,,, but I know lot's of people who do



To: Krowbar who wrote (39013)6/2/1999 11:01:00 PM
From: Jacques Chitte  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Maybe the Double Secret Zero'th Commandment is "Be Lucky!"



To: Krowbar who wrote (39013)6/3/1999 12:19:00 AM
From: epicure  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
The answer is there are no answers. Shit happens and you don't want to be there when it does, but sometimes you are anyway, and its a pisser. But that's life. It's probably easier being dead but much less exciting.



To: Krowbar who wrote (39013)6/3/1999 4:18:00 AM
From: nihil  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
... why would an all-powerful god, who created the Earth and it's laws of nature and weather, kill people with tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, etc.

Actually, I think the kids just take them out for a drive.



To: Krowbar who wrote (39013)6/3/1999 1:28:00 PM
From: jbe  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Del, did you ever read John Stuart Mill's essay, "Nature"? This is precisely the argument he makes, and he makes it with great passion & eloquence. A favorite excerpt:

...Nature impales men, breaks them as on the wheel, casts them to be devoured by wild beasts, burns them to death, crushes them with stones like the first Christian martyr, starves them with hunger, freezes them with cold, poisons them by the quick or slow venom of her exhalations, and has hundreds of other hideous deaths in reserve such as the ingenious cruelty of a Nabis or a Domitian never surpassed. All this nature does with the most supercilious disregard both of mercy and of justice, emptying her shafts upon the best and noblest indifferently with the meanest and worst...She mows down those on whose existence hangs the well-being of a whole people, perhaps the prospects of the human race for generations to come, with as little compunction as those whose death is a relief to themselves or a blessing to those under their noxious influence. Such are nature's dealings with life.....Next to taking life is taking the means by which we live; and nature does this too, on the largest scale and with the most callous indifference. A single hurricane destroys the hopes of a season; a flight of locusts desolates a district; a trifling chemical change in an edible root starves a million of people. The waves of the sea, like banditti, seize and appropriate the wealth of the rich and the little all of the poor with the same accompaniments of stripping, wounding, and killing as their human antitypes. Everything, in short, which the worst men commit either against life or property is perpetrated on a larger scale by natural agents...

Mill's conclusion? If an omnipotent deity created all this -- he is a demon.

jbe



To: Krowbar who wrote (39013)6/3/1999 1:57:00 PM
From: jbe  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Another response, again from John Stuart Mill.

By no means all believers would think themselves "special" (as against "lucky") if they were spared from the consequences of a natural catastrophe. The question is -- do believers, in a pinch, truly believe in an omnipotent God? Mill thinks the best of them do not (emphasis mine):

There is no subject on which men's practical belief is more incorrectly indicated by the words they use to express it than religion. Many have derived a base confidence from imagining themselves to be the favorites of an omnipotent, but capricious and despotic deity. But those who have been strengthened in goodness by relying on the sympathizing support of a powerful and good Governor of the world have, I am satisfied, never really believed that Governor to be, in the strict sense of the term, omnipotent. They have always saved his goodness at the expense of his power. They have believed, perhaps, that he could, if he willed, remove all the thorns from their individual path, but not without causing greater harm to someone else, or frustrating some purpose of greater importance to the general well-being. They have believed he could have done any one thing, but not any combination of things; that his government, like human government, was a system of adjustments and compromises; that the world is inevitably imperfect, contrary to his intentions. And since the exertion of all his power to make it as little imperfect as possible leaves it as no better than it is, they cannot but regard his power, although vastly beyond human estimate, yet as in itself not merely finite but extremely limited.