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Pastimes : Let's Talk About Our Feelings!!! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Ilaine who wrote (41238)6/20/1999 9:22:00 PM
From: Tommaso  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Are you aware that your version of the Ten Commandments is the Greek Orthodox and Protestant (except for Lutheran) version?

Catholics and Lutherans run together what you have as I and II, and separate X into two. I think that Lutherans have IX as prohibiting coveting a neighbor's wife, whereas Catholics say "house." But I may have that wrong.

In any case, contrary to what almost everyone thinks who argues the legal issue of the presence or absence of the Commandments in classrooms, etc., there is no agreement in Christendom or between Christians and Jews as to exactly what they are.

From the Britannica:

Traditions differ in numbering the Ten Commandments. In
Judaism, the prologue ("I am the Lord your God, who brought you
out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage") constitutes
the first element, and the prohibitions against false gods and idols the
second. Medieval Roman tradition, accepted by Luther, regards all
these elements as one and preserves the number 10 by separating
the prohibitions against coveting another's wife and coveting
another's possessions. In the Greek Orthodox and Protestant
Reformed traditions, the prologue and the prohibition against false
gods are one commandment and the prohibition against images is
the second. (See Lutheranism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Protestantism.)



To: Ilaine who wrote (41238)6/20/1999 9:48:00 PM
From: E  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 108807
 
This is what Sidney said:

<<<Do you mean to say they don't believe murder, theft, adultery, are wrong? If they do then they accept at least some of those commandments. >>>

So I said this (and added that i would object to a public school teaching that the strictures i mention below had been commanded supernaturally) :

<<<I wouldn't object to a series of moral strictures on which parents could agree being posted in my child's school.>>>

So I guess you're speaking rhetorically when you imply that I have no problem with the 10 commandments being posted. Obviously they don't all fall into the category I stipulated.

I'm glad you posted them though. It's been a while since I read them, and I had forgotten the most startling line,

I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for
the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand [generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments.


This is a pretty rebarbative stance, to me personally. I would actually think no one would want this posted, as it so violates normal, everyday standards of fairness that it might have an effect opposite to the one intended. I suspect that it will be gradually phased out in this form by means of softening via 'translation.'



To: Ilaine who wrote (41238)6/20/1999 9:49:00 PM
From: Grainne  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 108807
 
Well, perhaps I could overlook those Commandments posted everywhere if I could have a manservant! <<<;-)



To: Ilaine who wrote (41238)6/20/1999 10:14:00 PM
From: Ish  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
Ok Coby, don't post them in the religious text. Ie #6, It ain't cool to kill people. Don't know how the God stuff could be changed.

May be have some Michael Jordan posters made about not killing or stealing or screwing around.



To: Ilaine who wrote (41238)6/21/1999 1:34:00 AM
From: Krowbar  Respond to of 108807
 
CB, If the posting of the 10 Commandments becomes the law of the land we should insist that one of the long versions, such as the one you posted, be used.

Do all of you Christians believe that the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and great great grandchildren of those that sinned should be punished?

Should those that don't observe 1-4 be punished, even though they are not believers, as are those that murder, steal, and lie?

Should the children of Charles Manson be required to honor him?
Del



To: Ilaine who wrote (41238)6/21/1999 2:19:00 AM
From: Krowbar  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 108807
 
What about the revised Commandments after Moses busted the first set?

1And the LORD said unto Moses, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first: and I will write upon these tables the words that were in the first tables, which thou brakest....

4And he hewed two tables of stone like unto the first; and Moses rose up early in the morning, and went up unto mount Sinai, as the LORD had commanded him, and took in his hand the two tables of stone.

5And the LORD descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and
proclaimed the name of the LORD.

6And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD
God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.

8And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped.

9And he said, If now I have found grace in thy sight, O LORD, let my LORD, I pray thee, go among us; for it is a stiffnecked people; and pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for thine inheritance.

10And he said, Behold, I make a covenant:before all people I will do marvels, such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation: and all the people among which thou art shall see the work of the LORD: for it is a terrible thing that I will do with thee.

11Observe thou that which I command thee this day: behold, I drive out before thee the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite.

12Take heed to thyself, lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land whither thou goest, lest it be for a snare in the midst of thee:

13But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:

14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

15Lest thou make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, and they go a whoring after their gods, and do sacrifice unto their gods, and one call thee, and thou eat of his sacrifice;

16And thou take of their daughters unto thy sons, and their daughters go a whoring after their gods, and make thy sons go a whoring after their gods.

17Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.

18The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, in the time of the month Abib: for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt.

19All that openeth the matrix is mine; and every firstling among thy cattle, whether ox or sheep, that is male.

20But the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb: and if thou redeem him not, then shalt thou break his neck. All the firstborn of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before me empty.

21Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.

22And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.

23Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the LORD God, the God of Israel.

24For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

25Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven; neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.

26The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

27And the LORD said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

28And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments...



Can somebody splain this to me? Will the real 10 Commandments please stand up? I'll bet most people didn't know that they weren't supposed to cook a young goat in it's mother's milk. In fact, I'll bet that most people haven't really read the Bible in it's entirety. It is boring, lengthy, confusing, full of contradictions, and not worthy of being called the word of God, if he did exist.

Del