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Politics : To be a Liberal,you have to believe that..... -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (1633)	9/10/1999 1:29:00 PM
From: Lizzie Tudor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6418

Interesting you bring up hate crimes Michael. I thought about that issue when you asked those fetus questions a few days ago, remember? You asked what should happen to a woman that deliberately mutilates a fetus... the implication being that that was somehow more heinous than taking too many sleeping pills or some other activity that could damage a pregnancy. You were describing a hate crime I guess... did I understand you correctly in that you somehow feel hate crimes are relevant for a fetus and not for an adult?

To: greenspirit who wrote (1633)	9/10/1999 2:58:00 PM
From: DJB	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6418

Michael, I find it interesting that you equate hate crimes to beating up gays. Hate crimes as defined by the law in Chicago are crimes against people because of their religion, race and sexual orientation. I know I wrote this in a previous post but you seem to have forgotten it. <<Have we measured the violent acts against fat kids, skinny kids, kids with glasses, kids who are ugly, kids who talk funny, etc. etc?>> You also seem to think that hate crimes are only done by kids in the local school yard or neighborhood. Hate crimes are usually done in the neighborhood of the victim. Do your kids go to schools with a diverse student body? I can't prove it but I think more hate crimes are done by adults against adults. How many fat adults have been beaten up since they became adults? How many fat people have been killed because they are fat? Hate crimes are not a school yard problem. <<My assumption is that far more kids are beaten up for being fat than for being gay>> Substitute the word "adults" for kids and see if you get the same conclusion. Also substitute "blacks, gays and religious affiliation (jews for example)" for "gays". Crime in general is on the decrease but hate crimes are on the rise. <<But what about my kids? I teach them tolerance, love and understanding? Well, we know you are a wonderful parent, but other people are not. What other people? I see my neighbors teaching good values, good ways of behavior? Oh, not your neighbors, the other peoples neighbors. But my school is in my neighborhood, and the parents are good and decent people, who believe in love and tolerance? Well, maybe your school is but other schools are not. What other schools? Are there a few schools who disproportionately beat up gays? Oh no, not any school in particularly, just in a general sense.>> This part of your post puzzles me. You went from having hate crime legislation to teaching values in the schools? Are you talking about sex education and learning tolerance as we discussed before? Seems like two different issues to me. If you are teaching your kids all those values that is great and I am sure that you will be successful. So I must ask the question why do you care if there is hate crime legislation at all? Your kids are not going to be criminals because of their upbringing. They may be a victim of hate crimes because of race but that is not likely. So why are you so dead against hate crime legislation? Erase Hate, Dennis