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Politics : About that Cuban boy, Elian -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (7173)	6/8/2000 10:41:00 PM
From: Lane3	Respond to of 9127

Posted at 5:43 p.m. EDT Thursday, June 8, 2000 Senate panel subpoenas Elian raid documents, plans to subpoena State WASHINGTON -- (AP) -- A Senate committee subpoenaed Attorney General Janet Reno on Thursday seeking all documents concerning the federal raid in Miami to seize 6-year-old Elian Gonzalez, and announced plans to subpoena the State Department as well. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Orrin Hatch said the Justice Department has yet to turn over all of its e-mails and documents regarding its decision in April to storm the home of the Cuban boy's Miami relatives to recover the boy for his father, Juan Miguel. ``We want everything so if hearings aren't justified, we won't hold them,'' said Hatch, R-Utah. ``If they are, we will.'' Hatch also called for a State Department subpoena after a conservative group claimed the government collaborated with Cuba's government during the fight over Elian. ``I believe this modification is warranted so as to inform the Congress and the public of any involvement by the State Department and the Cuban government in the raid,'' Hatch said. ``If there was no such involvement, let's establish that. We will all be better served by getting the facts out.'' The Republican-dominated committee approved the Justice Department subpoena by voice vote. The State Department subpoena will be considered next week, Hatch said. Judicial Watch, a conservative group, said Wednesday that documents it obtained through a Freedom of Information lawsuit show that administration officials, including the Immigration and Naturalization Service, have consulting with Cuba on Elian matters. ``These smoking gun documents help prove what we've suspected, that the Clinton-Gore Administration was doing the bidding of Fidel Castro when they raided the Gonzalez home using 151 armed federal agents,'' Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton said. Government officials have denied dealing with Castro's government. Hatch's push for a Justice Department subpoena met with a mixed reaction from Judiciary Democrats. Sen. Robert Torricelli, D-N.J., agreed with the move, saying getting all of the information possible would help quell conspiracy theories about what happened with Elian. ``This will deflate, not inflate, the issue,'' he said. Other Democrats say the subpoena is not necessary. ``I think there's a march to a witch hunt in everything this administration does,'' said Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif. Sen. Patrick Leahy of Vermont, the committee's ranking Democrat, said the subpoena would be just a ploy to explain why there have not been any hearings on the matter. ``Senator Hatch is delighted to send out subpoenas. He's delighted to send letters. He's delighted to send staff members,'' he said. ``The only thing he doesn't want to do is hold full-scale Elian hearings ... because the American people know what we know, that the child belongs with his parents.'' Sending in armed federal officers to retrieve a child, ``that's not America,'' Hatch said. ``There are many people in our society who are very concerned with the way that house was assaulted: in the middle of the night in full combat gear, automatic or semiautomatic weapons drawn, the home trashed without any real mention in the court document that they were concerned about violence,'' he said.

To: Lane3 who wrote (7173)	6/8/2000 11:13:00 PM
From: X Y Zebra	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9127

I do not doubt that this feeling is real, only that it can be termed a right. Regardless of what it's called, I find it disconcerting. Isn't this the path that leads to such wonderful conditions as you find in places like the Middle East and Yugoslavia? Remember Karen that I was only repeating what marcos had said. My personal opinion is that such feeling does exist amongst some people. I do not necessarily agree to that, since such feeling is not based on reality. (many feelings are not based in reality as well, but that is a different subject). Yes I would agree with you in terms of what it leads to. However in this case, I do not believe Mexicans are as fanatical as the people in your examples, more importantly, I want to believe that this situation will be handled differently. My real concern is population explosion... once that gets out of hand, then who knows how the behavior will develop. The old experiment of putting hundreds of rats in a small area... they go nuts... That is my concern. I have seen this movie before, and I do not like where it leads.

To: Lane3 who wrote (7173)	6/9/2000 1:57:00 PM
From: marcos	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 9127

"I do not doubt that this feeling is real, only that it can be termed a right. Regardless of what it's called, I find it disconcerting. Isn't this the path that leads to such wonderful conditions as you find in places like the Middle East and Yugoslavia?" It won't in this case, no way ... there is not the religiously-inspired hatred, for one thing ... the great majority on both sides of that border are peaceful practical people who just want to get along, get fed, get housed, get laid ... and there are so many connections, families on both sides of the line - i have many stories on this, like the guy in BCS who pressed me into celebrating his 65th birthday with him one time [we had a deal going on which he was going to finance with his first US pension check, he had been thirty years in the Teamsters in (Alta) California] [and had also played in movies, once with Sterling Hayden] ... his kids were born in the US, one is a lawyer with a house on the beach and a Mercedes, they're all quite successful, and they're all quite 'americans' ... still latinos though, very much so. Check the casualty lists for all the recent US wars - you'll find a lot of spanish names ... in WW II there were thousands of mexicanos trained for the US air force at Brownsville Texas, the man who introduced me to my wife was one of them, he was walking down the street one day in el DF and saw a poster, on the wall of the US embassy i expect, he packed his bag and left. No question that there is tension formed around that line by idiots, but they are very much in the minority ... that article you posted which began this conversation, of the guy who offered a reward for the shooting of a border patrol - nobody supports that ... no way does that guy have the support of 5000 as he claims ... and on the US side, i'd be surprised if more than a handful were shooting mexicanos, and if more than a few hundreds of cross-burning twits supported them ... no, that sort of thing won't spread, imho ... it will get stomped on, hard, as it should. Btw, Dubya speaks spanish and counts Zedillo among his friends. This goes some way to alleviate my fear of the foreign policy hawks in the Republican party ... at least as far as M‚x-US relations are concerned ... it remains to be seen how they treat the people ... Anybody willing has my full blessing to shoot the narcotraficantes and various mafioso types concentrated on that border, though, and i'd appreciate the opportunity to chip in for ammunition ... they are a small minority, and not doing anybody any good.