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Politics : Should God be replaced? -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (961)	9/20/2000 4:07:12 PM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Luther himself was never emancipated from such beliefs Would his German translation of the Bible then be as infalible as say the King James translation? or could some of the biases creep in? TP

To: Greg or e who wrote (961)	9/20/2000 5:07:12 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 28931

To be fair Greg, what are his contemporaries doing in science? I don't think he was "cutting edge" for a man standing at the door of the "Age of Reason". I know the Renaissance was delayed in N. Europe. I would argue, it was the likes of Martin Luther that kept it that way. He was a reactionary in the truest sense - a conservative reacting to the corruption of the church with a heavy-handed agenda and strict interpretation of HIS selections from the bible. Da Vinci died two years before ML was excommunicated by Pope Leo to put it in context. Solon's point was, IMO, that much of the rhetoric SOUNDS not unlike people today (not you, but some). I've actually had people tell me fossils were put there by Satan to fool me into not believing Genesis. That's weak. My wife's kin believe that we in California are replaying Sodom and Gomorrah - they are a little softer in tone than ML, but not much. Here's what some others were doing during ML's life. weburbia.com 1480: Leonardo de Vinci, description of parachute 1480: Leonardo de Vinci, compares reflection of light to reflection of sound waves 1490: Leonardo de Vinci, capillary action 1492: Leonardo de Vinci, foresees flying machines 1494: Leonardo de Vinci, foresees pendulum clock 1514: Nicolaus Copernicus, writes about heliocentric theory but does not yet publish 1515: Leonardo Da Vinci, progress in mechanics, aerodynamics and hydraulics 1537: Niccolo Tartaglia, trajectory of a bullet 1551: Girolamo Cardano, studies of falling bodies 1553: Giambattista Benedetti, proposed equality of fall rates 1543: Nicolaus Copernicus, heliocentric theory published 1546: Gerardus Mercator, Magnetic pole of Earth

To: Greg or e who wrote (961)	9/20/2000 5:36:35 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 28931

Greg, do you think it better for Luther to be criticised by Solon, or to be praised by the Nazi's?? Not everyone was anti-semetic. This was not forced upon him by his times. Do you miss the point about the demon pschosis? The fighting with the devil nightly at Wartburg (mental illness tends to worsen during isolation)? The point is this: There is nothing irrational about asserting that demons live in a tree. If one can make a rational case for it, fine. But if one makes these kinds of assertions alongside the adamant assertion that reason is a whore, then people should run like hell. When a man wishes to destroy witches and Jews AND reason all in one all-inclusive world view, that entails that the basis of his behaviour is going to be his own inner voices...it is time to run like hell. I find it odd that you would come here to protect this man from criticism. If the purpose of studying history is to learn, this purpose is hardly served by lying, pretending, or overlooking. Do your responses attempt to appeal to reason, the faculty that Luther condemned?? If so, then you are obviously not his follower, and you can join us in criticising and commiserating in this poor man's life struggle. Elsewise, if you also condemn reason, then please do not make any appeals through that agency. There is certainly room for praise when it comes to Luther, and there is indeed room for understanding the climate of his times. My point was that he was a man driven by personal demons. Today, we have cures or stabilizers for those demons. Many of his beliefs were irrational, racist, and dangerous, and were subsequently used by evil people to commit mass acts of murder. Like many tragic figures, there is no doubt that his efforts redressed an imbalance in society. In the long term he was both the excuse and the slayer of evil. However, it was not my intention to be an apologist for Luther. If you can find nothing good to say about him, but only wish to suppress TRUTH (which is REALITY), then let me know, and I will try to put some good stuff together. I wonder if in 400 years people will be compiling all the silly things you have said on this thread and having a good laugh? Somehow I doubt it. Well, that was a very telling argument! :) Let me know how it actually turns out. EDIT: In your essay about the good side of Luther, you might start by pointing out the incredible psychological pressure of standing against the might of the Holy Catholic Church, and having your life continually at risk...and what that kind of loneliness and social isolation can do to a person's mental cohesiveness...