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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/17/2000 11:59:31 PM
From: mcweazy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Gore is interested in the counties he feels may have had some irregularities. If he were merely trying to garner votes, and, you know, he is able to manufacture votes, he would call for a recount of every county that did not vote his way.

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/18/2000 12:01:31 AM
From: Frank Griffin	Respond to of 769667

Michael, they know those counties are absolutely Gore country. the blacks voted 93-7 for Gore. The Jews voted 81-19 for Gore. The governmental hierarchy are blindly loyal democrat operatives. Gore knows he can get any number of votes he needs with their help. What really frustrates me about the supreme court is their order to withhold the certification of the election till Monday. That allows the Gore people to determine exactly how many votes they need to produce to win. Why, if they are truly motivated to serve, did the supreme court not meet this afternoon or tomorrow morning? Why wait until Monday and strengthen the hand of Gore by giving them the information they need to insure their win?

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/18/2000 12:02:33 AM
From: zonkie	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

I see you are starting on your 180 change in position already. Gore said just a few days ago that he was willing to do a hand recount in all counties. He made this offer at the same time he offered to meet with Bush as a way of defusing the situation a bit. Bush evidently didn't want to hand recount all of the counties or he would have agreed with Gore. I predict he will be changing his mind next week. He will probably still not man enough to meet face to face with Gore though. >>>>How anyone can logically believe "selective recounting districts" allows the voice of the people of Florida to be known is absurd.<<

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/18/2000 12:08:57 AM
From: mcweazy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

This is authoritative: WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Florida recount has left many puzzled not only about the results of last Tuesday's elections, but about the method: The kind of punch-card ballot under scrutiny in Florida has been notorious for its inaccuracy. The so-called "Votomatic" system developed in the 1960s is based on technology that has been considered obsolete for years. Now, the outcome of the November 7 presidential race hangs on whether as few as two Florida counties are allowed to conduct manual recounts of punch-card ballots to include those wrongly discarded due to "hanging" chad. The hanging bits of paper and the miscounts they cause have long been a problem. Now, with Vice President Al Gore trailing Texas Gov. George W. Bush by only 300 votes in Florida, Gore aides have gone to court to push for manual recounts. Bush's campaign argues that hand counts are unreliable, and machine counts will result in a more accurate count. But the punch-card ballots used in counties like Broward and Palm Beach counties are so prone to inaccurate counting that a National Bureau of Standards report recommended their elimination more than a decade ago. The bureau stated in 1988: "It is generally not possible to exactly duplicate a count obtained on pre-scored punch cards." Other groups have reached the same conclusion, for the same reason -- that the so-called "chad" left over from marking the ballot can foul the machines used to count votes, forcing the machine to kick out the ballot. Among the races that led to those assessments was a 1984 race for property appraiser in Palm Beach County, Florida -- one of the counties at the center of the dispute in the presidential race.

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/18/2000 12:20:13 AM
From: Mr. Whist	Respond to of 769667

Even if the Florida high court allows the recounts go through, seems to me that the Republicans would have a strong case in getting them disallowed ... based on the volumes of allegations made on this board of ballot corruption and such. Shouldn't be too difficult to prove potential for corruption if all the right-wing "experts" on this board are correct. This is where the Republicans might win this election after all ... in getting the ballots thrown out AFTER they're officially allowed. Even though I voted for Gore, I'd handicap the race right now at 60-40 in favor of Bush. ... even though obviously more people in Florida voted for Gore than GWB.

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/18/2000 1:00:08 AM
From: zonkie	Respond to of 769667

You'll have to take that up with the lawmakers in Florida. Does the person requesting the recount have to pay for it? If so that may be why it is the way it is. I think you should bring it up with Bush Junior that he was allowed to ask for hand recounts in any amount of counties he chose too. >>>>How anyone can logically believe "selective recounting districts" allows the voice of the people of Florida to be known is absurd.<<<

To: greenspirit who wrote (80592)	11/18/2000 1:09:45 AM
From: jhild	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

How anyone can logically believe "selective recounting districts" allows the voice of the people of Florida to be known is absurd. So let's see. We have various tiers of voters in Florida? We have the Absentee class. Their votes are counted 100% completely as they are evidently counted by hand. Then we have the Voting Machine Class voters. They pull a lever. They flip switches next to the names. Their intent is hard to miss. The election code covers in detail how electors are to observe and tally the counts and totals from these machines. Recounts here involve checking your arithmetic. Then we have the Paper Ballot Class. They are supposed to use a black pen to blacken the squares that machines will read and then tally the results. Doing hand recounts here shows can discern intent if the voter marked, albeit not completely the box of their choice. Improperly registered votes can almost certainly be caught by visual reconsideration. Finally there is the Punch Card Class. These voters punch holes but the paper may not completely pop out. When they don't, those votes don't get read in the machines. So your theory of fairness is to NOT include hand recounts of whatever counties can be recounted and recorded as close to 100% as possible? You are willing to disenfranchise these people merely because your man is ahead and you want to slam the door on all votes being counted? Yet the reason the other counties are not being counted is because the Bush campaign did not request a recount in a timely fashion, so you would argue that the election should be awarded to them, because of their failure to act? Isn't your argument that you would make about the voters in Palm Beach that were confused by the ballot, that it was their failure to realize or correct themselves? So tough? Aren't you engaging in situational ethics?