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To: chowder who wrote (79413)11/18/2000 10:55:36 AM
From: kodiak_bull  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 95453
 
While America Slept . . .

So, now the Florida Supremes have granted certiorari for the case and denied certification for the Sec'y of State. Granted cert and denied cert, all in a day's work.

The players:

The Dems: vicious, high powered special forces on the ground in Florida, dominating the airwaves, the streets and the back alleys. Clear intent of the voter? Throwing out servicemen and women's votes? un@#$%#@@believable. Yet true.

The Reps: weak, perhaps lost in a gin and tonic fog. Jim Baker is the only one on the ground in Florida, and nobody remembers who Jim Baker was, let alone is. Some tired old guy. His back up is Paul Gigot and Peggy Noonan, both practically in mourning already.

The Court: The question is will the court simply look at the law, or will it decide this is such a momentous occasion that it will throw the whole thing open to every possible discussion. The special 1 hour per side time allocation does not bode well for the Republicans. The problem is their presentation should take about 4 minutes: State law rules, state law was followed, the sec'y did not exceed her discretion and was not arbitrary or capricious, and a selective recount with suddenly changing standards designed to reinstate every possible ballot in a densely populated Democratic county is patently unfair and corruptive of democracy and the voting process. It is a mockery of democracy.

There, it's done. Now, what will the Republican lawyer say to fill up the last 56 looooooooooooooooong, dragggggggggging minutes?

The net beneficiary: America, fat, dumb and happy, brainwashed by the liberal media into cultural relativism and such an absurd reversal of morality (the impeachment process simply showcased the dirty minds of the Republicans, as if committing troops to Bosnia while getting a hummer under the desk, lying directly to the American people and serial lying to grand juries, obstruction of justice were mere foibles of human activity). Dumb America, differentiating "chad" is now respect for the voting process, changing standards so your candidate is sure to get more votes is respect for democracy, but signed ballots from Captain X or Major Y are thrown out. Happy America, maybe the good times will continue for another 3 or 4 years; Dow 15,000? Naz 12,000?

But what will be the outcome of this election, if stolen?

No one knows.

We could, however, play "Back to the Future" with the last presidential election stolen by a Daley and others: 1960. What if Nixon had been elected? A weaker, less charismatic man, already at the tail end of almost a decade of Republican administration, he would have been forced to tread softly and compromise more often with Congress. Yet perhaps he would not have seemed as weak to Castro and Kruschev as the handsome young liberal Kennedy. The Bay of Pigs might have gone forward, but Vietnam? Imho, there's a very good chance we would have "Vietnamized" that war in 1961 or 1962 and left with fewer than a thousand dead, and a country more or less intact. Elect Kennedy in 1964 (remember, he hasn't been assassinated) without LBJ, and maybe the country survives the turbulent 60s without quite so much sex, drugs and rock n roll, or guns & butter with no dough to pay for them, no stagflation, or Phase 1 & 2, or Gerry Ford and W.I.N. Maybe the personal computer is invented in 1972, we all go on line before Disco is big.

Definitely no Jimmy Carter.

Back to the Present. There are two courts left to decide this. The first one hears the case on Monday. My own feeling is Bush still has a 60-40 chance of becoming a legitimate President. If the court steps in actively to decide the presidency, those numbers immediately go to 20-80 or less.

If Gore is elected he will accomplish nothing and the country will wheel slowly on its axis. January 20, 2001 will be a national day of mourning for democracy and the American experiment. Who will be to blame? Bill Daley, Boies, Warren Christopher, Algore, Slick Willie?

Nope, they're just the opportunists. The blame will fall on the sheep who sat by their televisions and nodded every time some Democrat hack uttered the words fairness, democracy, the true intent of the voters of Florida and the will of the people. Countries generally get the government they deserve. Just look at Russia 1917-1989, or Argentina any time. Muy buenos dias, America.

Illegitimate Al, the bastard prince, pretender to the throne, is poised to take power. It may be twilight in America.

JimP, you better retract that fork, that weenie is taking a long time to barbecue.



To: chowder who wrote (79413)11/18/2000 12:40:53 PM
From: Warpfactor  Respond to of 95453
 
Dabum,

OT: In a previous life, I was an Industrial Engineer at a large USPS mail processing center.
Re USPS cancellation policy: only outbound mail receives a postmark. That is, mail collected for delivery in a city or metro area is postmarked that same evening with that cities postmark.
Mail traveling from one location to another does not receive a postmark in the destination city, except under rare (percentagewise) circumstances where the recipient gets mail that does not belong to him/her and tosses it back in that cities originating mail stream.
You are correct in that a small percentage of letters may pass through the USPS automated Facer-Canceller machines without getting cancelled/postmarked for whatever reason.
Many of these letters will be cancelled at the delivery end by the carrier (or clerk sorting to a PO box). However, at this point the stamp is simply cancelled out, and does not receive a postmark at all.
Military mail is a different animal. Mail destined for military bases is collected at the USPS and forwarded to an International Mail distribution center, which despite it's name also serves military mail. The mail will be sorted to several military hubs and then put on planes. At that point, the USPS no longer controls this mail.
Mail inbound to the USPS from military bases worldwide also fly through the USPS International Mail facility. Until it actually arrives there, the USPS has no control over it. The USPS does not apply a postmark, this is done at the military postal office. Strange thing, though. I never recall seeing any military mail without postmarks??
Also, postal employees are a highly democratic species, particularly the unionized carriers, clerks and mailhandlers.

Warp



To: chowder who wrote (79413)11/18/2000 4:57:16 PM
From: Douglas V. Fant  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 95453
 
dabum3, The Republicans now claim to have "clear and convincing evidence of "vote sabotage" they just announced- Be interesting to see what it is...

The whole situation with disqualification of hundreds of military ballots stinks.... I'd like to hear a good explanation...Whoever wins should win "square and fair"- the true intent of the people of Florida should prevail, right?

Re postal unions: The whole ability of unionized government workers to contribute millions to political campaigns is personally not understandable and essentially unacceptable. All government workers should be subject to the Hatch Act limitations on political activities....

Anyway just from CNN:

Democratic and Republican lawyers filed their arguments in the state Supreme Court, Bush aides tried to call the credibility of the effort into question.

"In Palm Beach County and Broward County, the hand counting of the ballots that is ongoing is not only fundamentally flawed, it is becoming completely untrustworthy," said Montana Gov. Marc Racicot, a Bush campaign observer in Florida.

Racicot said the GOP had "clear and convincing evidence" that Democrats conducting the count had "sabotaged ballots." He said ballots were mishandled and dropped onto the floor by overworked, elderly vote counters. In one case, he said, vote counters found Bush ballots stacked among a pile of Gore ballots and refused to remove them. In another case, chad was taped over a ballot that had been marked for Bush, he said.



To: chowder who wrote (79413)11/20/2000 12:39:56 AM
From: dfloydr  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 95453
 
dabum3: another not nice possibility: someone got a hold of some absentee ballots and dropped them in at the last minute in the hopes that they would not be scrutinized ... and that could have been a Gore or a Bush operative.

Remember, most military absentee ballots and overseas ex-pat ballots would have been mailed in places overseas that know nothing of Florida election laws, and most countries are pretty firm about canceling stamps.

Therefore, uncanceled stamps on ballots from overseas locations look very suspicious to me. Pretty easy to fedex in a bunch of Serbian or German or Korean postage stamps .... not so easy to get a hold of a Stuttgart canceling machine.

Look at who those tossed out ballots are for, and you are probably looking at who was trying to stack the absentee votes.