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Technology Stocks : Intel Corporation (INTC) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Paul Engel who wrote (118504)	11/20/2000 1:47:58 AM
From: Eric K.	Respond to of 186894

McEngle-- I guess they're actually available-- shopping.hp.com@@@@1168748398.0974702335@@@@&BV_EngineID=jaljgiejiggbfdmckgcfjgcgmh.0&cat_oid=-22316 -- I don't know how many people will actually want them though, based on the reviews so far. If the above link doesn't work, you can get a Willenium off of shopping.hp.com, then Desktops, then Build your own system (=>Show all systems), at the bottom of the page. The anand summary of the bad points: Unfortunately, in spite of the many good points about the Pentium 4, at least on paper, there is just too much working against it. For starters, while the Pentium 4 requires a higher clock speed to maintain a performance lead, the fact of the matter is that according to Intel's roadmap the CPU won't hit 2GHz until the third quarter. The next Pentium 4 to hit the streets will be the 1.3GHz Pentium 4 which will offer a very low performance level compared to the competition, it would make sense to pursue a Pentium III instead of a 1.3GHz P4. If you're thinking about keeping a longer lasting system, don't forget that the Socket-423 interface will begin to be phased out starting at the middle of next year so the Pentium 4 won't leave you in much better of a position than the Pentium III. While it's a good idea for Intel to attempt to take the price of RDRAM out of the picture by bundling two sticks with each boxed CPU, this isn't a true solution to the problem. The solution that needs to be implemented is that the Pentium 4 needs a DDR SDRAM platform, preferably one from Intel (VIA hasn't always had the best memory performance) and it needs one before it's too late. According to Intel, the Brookdale chipset (DDR SDRAM for the Pentium 4) won't be out until the first quarter of 2002, by that time even Dell will be begging for AMD chips if there is no DDR chipset for the Pentium 4. If Intel doesn't come through with one it seems like it will be up to VIA, luckily their DDR memory controller is already sampling in Apollo Pro 266 chipsets so its mainly a matter of licensing the bus from Intel and implementing it in a North Bridge design. We mentioned that SSE2 is a benefit that the Pentium 4 holds. At the same time it is a downside, since a lot of the power of the Pentium 4 could come from the proper optimization of applications for SSE2 which we won't see in most applications for still some time to come. With AMD also supporting SSE2 by the end of 2001, the 144 instructions should be embraced by the industry and they will, but it will take some time. For today's buyer, the Pentium 4 simply doesn't make sense. It's slower than the competition in just about every area, it's more expensive, it's using an interface that won't be the flagship interface in 6 - 9 months and it requires a considerable investment outside of the price of the CPU itself. Remember that you have to buy a new motherboard, new memory (if you don't get it bundled with a boxed CPU), and a new power supply/case. This is the investment that must be made in order to have a CPU that can't outperform any of today's top performers with the promise that tomorrow's Pentium 4 will be better. Our recommendation to you? Wait until the Pentium 4 turns out to be a bit more, SSE2 support is still in its infant stages, the i850 platform is doomed because of its exclusive RDRAM support, the Socket-423 interface will go away pretty soon and the performance just isn't there. Intel does have the potential to make the Pentium 4 a success, for the reasons we just mentioned and discussed further in the article, however it's far from a success today. -Eric

To: Paul Engel who wrote (118504)	11/20/2000 2:34:04 AM
From: milo_morai	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 186894

<font color=red>Paul ANAND's P4 Benchmarks vs T-bird/DDR. You can't keep lying to yourself much longer. anandtech.com With a 50% higher clock speed over the rest of the processors compared in the above chart, we get to see some interesting aspects of the Pentium 4's performance. For starters, while the clock speed advantage should have given the Pentium 4 an incredible lead at the start, we can see that it peaks at the same performance level as a 1GHz Athlon which was one reason for choosing only 1GHz processors to compare here. anandtech.com In spite of the 12% lead the 1.5GHz Pentium 4 took in the Quake III Arena benchmarks, the 1.2GHz Athlon on the AMD 760 platform manages to take a 5% lead over the 1.5GHz P4. This is the perfect example of how the Pentium 4 needs a higher clock speed in order to distance itself from the competition. At clock speeds close to that of the Athlon, without any SSE2 specific optimizations, the Pentium 4 will almost always come out under the Athlon. anandtech.com Again, the Athlon at 1.2GHz holds a 10% lead over the Pentium 4 at 1.5GHz. Even on a PC133 platform, the 1.2GHz Athlon ends up 2% faster than the Pentium 4. UnrealTournament is a very texture intensive game, meaning that these a considerable amount of stress on memory bandwidth which the AMD 760 DDR platform definitely has. At the same time there is a stress on low latency memory performance, which the AMD 760 platform has, but which the Pentium 4 also has. Remember that the Athlon can do more in a single clock than the Pentium 4, making the 300MHz difference in clock speed between the Pentium 4 and the Athlon compared here mean very little. Under Expendable, a very memory performance dependent test, the Pentium 4 suffers considerably, falling to the bottom of our performance charts. Even a high clock speed wouldn't help the Pentium 4 here, it seems like there are some situations in which the Pentium 4 just isn't a high performer. anandtech.com The SYSMark 2000 benchmark is perfect for illustrating what even a PC133 SDRAM platform could do for the Pentium 4. If you notice, the 1.5GHz Pentium 4 is just 3 points lower than a 1GHz Pentium III on an i840 platform, keep in mind that the two platforms have the exact same memory configuration. Now look at the same Pentium III on a PC133 i815 platform, see the huge performance advantage it gets just by moving to PC133 SDRAM instead of the i840's dual channel RDRAM setup? Chances are we'd see a similar boost for the Pentium 4, bringing it much closer in performance to the Athlon, however we won't be seeing that anytime soon. And for the home/office user, the Pentium 4 would actually be a downgrade* in many cases.* anandtech.com DDR Athlon wins again and 300Mhz slower. anandtech.com P4 dead last on 1st set. "For today's buyer, the Pentium 4 simply doesn't make sense. It's slower than the competition in just about every area, it's more expensive, it's using an interface that won't be the flagship interface in 6 - 9 months and it requires a considerable investment outside of the price of the CPU itself. Remember that you have to buy a new motherboard, new memory (if you don't get it bundled with a boxed CPU), and a new power supply/case. This is the investment that must be made in order to have a CPU that can't outperform any of today's top performers with the promise that tomorrow's Pentium 4 will be better. anandtech.com Our recommendation to you? Wait until the Pentium 4 turns out to be a bit more, SSE2 support is still in its infant stages, the i850 platform is doomed because of its exclusive RDRAM support, the Socket-423 interface will go away pretty soon and the performance just isn't there. Intel does have the potential to make the Pentium 4 a success, for the reasons we just mentioned and discussed further in the article, however it's far from a success today. " OUCH Milo