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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ellen who wrote (104512)	12/7/2000 4:39:11 PM
From: Zoltan!	Respond to of 769670

>>I do not understand why you cannot understand that these 'undervotes' include ballots with votes that the machine simply cannot read due to the way the machine operates. Because they don't. They're abstentions.

To: Ellen who wrote (104512)	12/7/2000 4:44:11 PM
From: amadeus	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

that is what in fact shows the corruption of the position taken about hand recounts. it would have been honest to scream and yell about counting in selective counties, but not to demonize the process itself. the result would have been to count all the counties. but they precluded that possibility by having demonized the hand count. so the demonization of hand counting is what led to the escalation involving the US supreme court, the federal courts, the secretary's action, and the legislature. gore only requested hand counts. not an unusual practice, and within the law completely.

To: Ellen who wrote (104512)	12/7/2000 4:45:23 PM
From: TigerPaw	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

That is just spin. A cop out. An excuse The other spin is that Gore is delaying the outcome of this election. It is actually the Bush team's obstructions that are taking so much time as they try to stall the normal process. TP

To: Ellen who wrote (104512)	12/7/2000 4:45:48 PM
From: SecularBull	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Ellen, that's the first somewhat reasonable post I've read from you, in the sense that you are admitting that not all of the undervotes are votes. I can see we're making progress with you. LoF

To: Ellen who wrote (104512)	12/7/2000 4:52:10 PM
From: Dave Gore	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 769670

Ellen, I think you are wasting your time. Some of us want as many votes counted as possible. Others don't and deal in semantics (i.e. all the votes have been counted), especially if it possibly endangers the guy they want to win. We all know if the situation was reversed, they would be doing the same thing, only hollering even louder. In fact, they would go even farther and want their guy to win if he won the popular vote and lost the electoral. I GUARANTEE they would be whining to high heaven. I am not pro-Gore, but I am labelled as one. I just want all the votes to count ( even the military and absentee ballots that didn't follow the letter of the law, and also the obvious hanging chad ballots, etc....meaning ALL THE VOTES THAT CAN AND SHOULD) then let the ballots fall where they may. How anybody could have argued any other way two weeks ago when that a full recount was still possible is unbelievable to me. It's anti-fair and anti-American to not want the true winner in the White House. And just wait to see what they say, if and when some students undertake a project for their Civics class and recount all the undervotes and find out that Gore really did win Florida. Can you hear the excuses already?

To: Ellen who wrote (104512)	12/8/2000 4:53:07 AM
From: Neil H	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

"I do not understand why you cannot understand that these 'undervotes' include ballots with votes that the machine simply cannot read due to the way the machine operates. Some of these 'undervotes' will of course actually be no votes - and should not and cannot be counted - but it cannot be assumed that all of these 'undervotes' are no votes. Yet you and your fellow Republicans leap to disenfranchise these votes." Ellen Two major reasons, speaking for myself 1. If all undervotes for the whole state would be counted, I would not be as adverse to it. However a few selective Demo counties is blatently unfair and could falsely skew the election 2. After watching the way the Broward county was done leads me to believe that is fabrication (casting ) of votes, not counting what was a vote, thus the election could be skewed based on fraudulent (my interpretation) counting of the votes. Furthermore Gore speaks out of every side of his mouth. ALL VOTES MUST BE COUNTED (unless they are for someone other than myself) He is a phony that I have no respect for and would never accept him as my president after the way his group has acted. Regards Neil