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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Machaon who wrote (121911)	1/12/2001 6:13:50 PM
From: Gordon A. Langston	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Clinton and Somalia The SHTF in October of '93 in Somalia. There is a good book on the incident "Black Hawk Down" by Mark Snowden and a discussion at the end of the players and where to place the blame (as usual, there was enough for all). Clinton claimed his own advisors were not forthcoming enough and he was in effect "sabotaged."

To: Machaon who wrote (121911)	1/13/2001 3:52:46 PM
From: Sedohr Nod	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

I have no intention of arguing the timing or the merits of the Somalian mess, but the idea that it was a plan of Bush sr.'s to make Clinton look bad is sickening. There is not one shred of evidence that President Bush took the lives of U.S. service men and women lightly. His team made sure our people had every possible advantage in the Gulf War. To prescribe Clintonian qualities to his actions is a disgrace.

To: Machaon who wrote (121911)	1/15/2001 8:33:54 AM
From: H-Man	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769667

Had Clinton pulled out the troops per the original plan, that was set up by GHWB, no soldiers would have been killed. There was a clear plan. Clinton disgarded it, when he signed on to UN Resolution 814. You deny it, but it was there. No spin at all. Just documented facts that can be proven. How long did it last you ask. Answer: Until Clinton changed the mission and sent troops into the country side to go warlord hunting. Fact. Not spin. (The first U.N Troops were killed in early June 1993. What were they doing ? Disarming Somali's.) The troops on the ground asked for armored reinforcment, to support the expanded mission. Clinton denied it. Fact not spin. The so called spin, you say comes from PBS, and we know how conservative they are. So according to your logic, if your Mama sends you to the grocery store to buy food, and you end up robbing the place, your Mama should go to jail. Typical of the Clinton era. Never take responsibilty when you can blame someone else. I believe that if we can do some good without taking troops into harms way, we should. That is what happened in Somalia, until Bill Clinton got into office. Your spin, is lacking in historical perspective, and absent any consideration of fact.

To: Machaon who wrote (121911)	1/15/2001 8:42:28 AM
From: H-Man	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769667

Here are some more quotes from our conservative friends at PBS: But the coordinated and politically astute operating strategy of U.S. Ambassador Robert B. Oakley and U.S. Marine General Robert Johnston (who both had outstanding access to Washington) would be interrupted, first by the U.S. presidential transition, and again during the handoff from UNITAF to UNOSOM II, the entire field leadership of the U.S.-led intervention was replaced by a less united and coherent operation reporting to U.N. headquarters .... ...Another major discontinuity was, of course, the adoption of a sweepingly ambitious new "nation-building" resolution by the Security Council (Resolution 814), which authorized UNOSOM II at the very moment existing management, reporting channels, and capabilities were being transformed. The nation-building resolution aimed explicitly at reestablishing Somalia's political institutions and rehabilitating its economy as well as assuring security throughout the country, not merely in the famine-afflicted south and central zones... The first quote is actually rather generous to Clinton. Since it ignores the fact that when Clinton came to office, he seldom, if ever sought advice from those who came before him. It was a pattern of arrogance that Clinton exhibited in all aspects of his administration. In the case of Somalia, Clintonian arrogance cost 22 Americans their lives.