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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: TGPTNDR who wrote (134734)3/21/2001 8:02:03 PM
From: jbkelle  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1571016
 
tgptndr, As a conservative Republican I have to say I'm distressed by any discussion of trying to "produce" our way out of the current energy crisis...it doesn't make sense economically and it's not worth the political capital. An analysis I value greatly can be found at:

rmi.org

I'm glad we have a new president as I think the country needed a change. However, to say we must drill for more oil and build more large power plants is to miss the single greatest opportunity for economic and environmental revival we'll have in our lifetime, and probably for 2-3 lifetimes. The President's plan actually diminishes and degrades our national security. The Gorinch understood this issue far better than the Shrub, he just couldn't articulate it and he couldn't escape the slime he had all over himself from 8 years of close proximity to Billary.

And that's all I have to say about that....jbk



To: TGPTNDR who wrote (134734)3/21/2001 9:03:49 PM
From: tejek  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 1571016
 
Let's see if I can drill that nerve. Like we're about to start drilling ANWR -- OR can you set me straight?

At
anwr.org;

TGPTNDR,

You are not drilling a nerve of mine but you are raising my curiosity. Who is the webmaster on that site that you linked us to? What is the organization behind the webmaster? Couldn't anything of the authors although I did a search of the site map.

And so what that if the Dem. Alaskan governor is for it or a native American spokesperson thinks its a good thing? Probably if we capped Ole Faithful in Yellowstone Park, it would generate a lot of thermal energy but how far do you think you get with the idea? Even with the CA Governor behind you or the Native American people who live in the area?

Its not the first time nor the last that local people favor development and destruction over preservation because $$$ is involved.

Look what they did to New Jersey! ;~)) It figures that Bush makes the former Governor of NJ the EPA head. Now that says mountains about what Bush thinks of the environment.

Nice try, tgptndr! <g>

ted



To: TGPTNDR who wrote (134734)3/21/2001 9:09:41 PM
From: stribe30  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1571016
 
TGPT:

According to your U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, oil drilling on the coastal plain would significantly alter caribou migration patterns and could cause a 40 percent decline in the population. This is why the natives and Canada strongly oppose this plan...it affects both concerned parties.. In this same link, it details the natives who do oppose this... the inland native peoples who hunt the caribou are unanimously opposed to it.. and even the tribe mentioned in the article that does to some extent support drilling is evenly divided...

Gwich'in Nation members maintain that without the caribou,
their lives would have ended a long time ago.
"It is very important for our young to learn our values," said Gwich'in leader Faith Gemmill. "Without the caribou we wouldn't have our identity and we wouldn't be a distinct people. We shouldn't have to give that up for short-term economic gain.

cnn.com

More evidence of wildlife disruption:

Wildlife-management experts are concerned the winter activities of oil companies could disrupt the denning of pregnant female polar bears along the shoreline. Musk oxen could be driven from their riverside habitats, where oil
companies come to find gravel and freshwater. And grizzly bears, which come out on the plain in summer, will likely again prove they are incompatible with oil camps. In the Prudhoe area, grizzlies were often relocated and sometimes shot when they became too intrusive.

Most important of all are the more than 130,000 caribou of the Porcupine herd, which migrates each spring onto the coastal plain to calve. These caribou are at the heart of the environmentalists' case against drilling. In late May, the animals arrive on the plain after traveling 400 miles around the mountains, to give birth far from their predators: the eagles, wolves and grizzlies that live principally in the mountains. After calving, they forage on the rich greenery that springs up in the 24-hour sunshine. As new snow approaches, they return to the forests on
the south slopes 400 miles away, where they find shelter and feed off lichen growing on trees. If drilling begins in the refuge, environmentalists fear, the migration will be disrupted.

"Caribou will move away from oil fields as disturbance increases," says David Klein, professor emeritus at the Institute of Arctic Biology at the University of
Alaska-Fairbanks. In the Prudhoe oil field, he says, the 25,000-head Central Arctic herd of caribou was displaced from oil developments. "The pipeline and [nearby] haul road have essentially fractured the Central Arctic herd into two
groups," Klein says.

time.com

Lastly.. read this article the whole way thru

"Last Call Of The Wild"

Specifically.. look for a couple of sections that show that ANSWR doesnt need to be drilled right now even in the so called energy crisis right now.. as well as more evidenceof environmental detrimental effects.

time.com

I trust CNN and TIME arent considered "crap" sites.

By the way... the area directly adjacent to the ANWR on our side of the border is a fully protected federal park.

Also.. Isee your site you referenced doesnt update its articles.. or at least.. not the ones it doesnt want people to read.. its got that "new poll" claiming 54% of Americans support drilling the ANWR... well.. that poll was taken in October..

The CNN/TIME Poll in Feb showed that 52% of AMericans now OPPOSED the drilling of the ANWR.. despite the Bush scare mongering tactics.. but of course.. why would they want to put that up on their site? That is extremely misleading in my view.



To: TGPTNDR who wrote (134734)3/22/2001 12:17:31 PM
From: Windsock  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1571016
 
TGP -Re:"Have a serious look -- Don't just give it the 'bullshit all conservative bullshit -- and this is the way it really is' response & I may pay some attention to you"

It seems that the R's in Congress think drilling in ANWR is Bush bullshit.

nytimes.com

March 22, 2001
Republicans' Budget Plans Ignore Arctic Oil Drilling
By LIZETTE ALVAREZ

WASHINGTON, March 21 — President Bush's plan to open the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to oil exploration suffered a double blow from Republicans in Congress today.

In a newly released budget for 2002, Republicans on the House Budget Committee declined to include any anticipated revenue from oil drilling in the Alaskan refuge, saying the issue would mean too big a fight for the budget process to deal with.

The chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, Pete V. Domenici of New Mexico, indicated that he expected to follow suit, since at least one Republican on that committee, Olympia J. Snowe of Maine, opposes drilling in the refuge.

That likely decision to leave the drilling provision out of the budget significantly complicates a bid by Frank H. Murkowski, the Alaska Republican who heads the Senate Energy Committee, to open the coastal plain of the refuge to exploration. Instead of needing 50 votes to get such a provision passed as part of his energy bill — a hurdle difficult enough — he would need to muster 60 votes to lift Senate budget rules and simply get it to the floor.

But Mr. Murkowski said in an interview that he planned to retain the provision in his bill. He maintained that there was strong support for it, that it was in the budget that President Bush will propose next month and that it would be among the recommendations being developed by a White House energy task force.

Mr. Murkowski also said he would find creative ways to get the contentious provision passed. "There are some other ways to skin the cat," the senator said.

"And as far as I'm concerned, for those who want to filibuster, Nero fiddled while Rome burned," he said of what the Bush administration has described as a growing energy crisis.

The move to leave the drilling provision out of the House budget proposal, and the likely decision to leave it out of the Senate proposal as well, illustrate the leverage that Republican moderates can exercise on environmental issues.

President Bill Clinton stood in the way of previous efforts to open the refuge to exploration, leading proponents of drilling to believe that the change in administrations offered them their best opportunity, particularly given Mr. Bush's strong support. But the Republican drilling foes are proving a major obstacle.

In addition to a number of Senate Republican moderates who oppose oil exploration in the refuge, 13 House Republicans sent a letter last Thursday to the chairman of the House Budget Committee, Representative Jim Nussle of Iowa, asking that he keep the provision out of the budget.

"We strongly believe this area should be preserved," they wrote. "A vote to the contrary would be very divisive within the Republican Party and harmful to those of us who represent constituents who oppose drilling."

But the proposal has brought a ferocious lobbying war on Capitol Hill and, as Mr. Murkowski made clear, is far from dead. President Bush and Senate Republican leaders alike argue that opening a slice of the refuge to oil exploration would make the United States less dependent on foreign oil.

Just today, Arctic Power, an Alaska group whose sole aim is to achieve drilling in the refuge, announced the creation of a coalition, the Energy Stewardship Alliance, to push for the measure. The new umbrella group includes oil companies, trade groups, transportation associations, the Teamsters' union and the United States Chamber of Commerce.

The newly formed coalition announced that it would sponsor television and radio advertisements in the Washington area over the next six days. "We can balance our need for energy and our concern for the environment," the advertisements say. "That's why 75 percent of Alaskans support energy exploration in A.N.W.R.," the initials by which the refuge is known.

Environmental groups, which say preservation of the refuge is their top priority, voiced only cautious optimism over today's turn of events. One reason is that there are countless ways to circumvent Senate rules. A popular way is to attach contentious pieces of legislation to year-end appropriations bills that must pass to keep the government running and are therefore difficult to block. It does not hurt Mr. Murkowski's cause that Senator Ted Stevens, chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, is another Alaska Republican.

"There are unfortunately numerous ways they could try to defy the will of the American people by sneaking a drilling provision on legislation that would be difficult to filibuster," said Adam Kolton, director of the Alaska Wilderness League, which opposes drilling in the refuge.

Still, today's developments place a substantial hurdle in Mr. Murkowski's way.

Mr. Domenici, chairman of the Senate Budget Committee, said he would not account for the drilling proposal within the budget blueprint if there was Republican opposition within his committee. With the Senate split 50-50 between the two parties, one vote can be enough to doom a bill.

"I'm not going to put it in if it's going to fail, and Murkowski knows that," Senator Domenici said. "I need to make sure all the members of the committee want it."

At least one, Senator Snowe, steadfastly opposes opening the refuge to oil drilling.