SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Pastimes : SI vs. iHub - Battle of the Boards Part 2 -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: CountofMoneyCristo who wrote (2461)5/23/2001 7:07:58 PM
From: PatiBob  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 5315
 
I'm certainly getting an education in all this.....rather long overdue. Thanks!

PB



To: CountofMoneyCristo who wrote (2461)5/23/2001 7:25:17 PM
From: CountofMoneyCristo  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 5315
 
What this law means, among other things, is that any licensed brokerage firm engaged in deceptive or manipulative business practices is in violation of the law. Examples of illegal practices might be:

1. engaging in agreements with unlicensed entities such as chat sites which could be construed to have the intent to manipulate traders for benefit of the brokerage firm and the chat site;

2. either directing or persuading chat sites to offer specific recommendations, or to design their "trader education" or "trader training" around the interests of the brokerage and chat site;

3. a licensed firm such as a brokerage extending any undisclosed compensation or kickbacks to a chat site as a reward for cooperation in generating commissions revenues;

4. Encouraging chat sites to manipulate traders, interfering in any way with a chat site in order to further the practice of scalping a high volume of trades, and dividing the proceeds with that chat site;

5. any artifice, scheme or deceit in any forum - and if sent by US Mail then this would constitute mail fraud, a felony - intentionally designed to mislead clients about the true nature of the ownership and direction of a chat site, for the purposes of cloaking the true intent and interests of a chat site from clients who would otherwise believe recommendations were being made in good faith, free from external bias and interference against their own best interests.


These are but a few of the practices specifically prohibited by this Act. I would restate what was published in the headline story of The New York Times Money&Business Section on October 15, after my extensive interviews with Assistant Business and Financial Editor, Gretchen Morgenson:

Payment for customer orders is common among brokerage firms. But the Securities and Exchange Commission requires such deals to be disclosed to customers, and the National Association of Securities Dealers prohibits the payment of such referral fees to unregistered individuals or entities like chat rooms.

To support his assertion, Mr. Asser points to two e-mail messages from [the chat site] Trading-places to brokerage firms discussing the terms of such deals. One message, written last May to an electronic brokerage firm specializing in futures, says that Trading- places will be paid $6 for each round- trip trade - trades getting in and out of a position - by a client referred by the Web site. The other e-mail message, to another futures broker, confirmed discussions with Trading- places about the Web site receiving $5 per round-trip trade by a Trading- places participant...

One of those firms, CyberCorp, a subsidiary of the Charles Schwab Corporation, said late Friday that it was reviewing its relationship with Trading-places.


Bloomberg reported the following October 16:

Asser claims Rea discussed terms with brokerage firms under which Rea would receive a fee for directing his subscribers to them -- a practice that would be illegal without disclosure to subscribers.

These issues are quite clear: any brokerage who has paid a chat site in compensation for generating or :"churning" stock trades has violated the law. Both the brokerage firm and the chat site would be liable for any and all damages which accrued from this activity, including punitive sanctions. For example, any broker and/or chat site operating a business according to the following process would be in clear and blatant violation, under current Federal Securities Law:

Chat Sites and Instant-execution Broker-dealers, and How the Intent to Defraud Day Traders May Be Carried Out in the Modern Era

1. A day trader joins a chat site, where he/she may be asked to provide privileged information about which broker he/she currently uses;

2. The site recommends one or more brokers, with whom the site has made illegal payment-for-order-flow agreements;

3. The trader becomes a client of the recommended broker;

4. The broker reports to the chat site the account has been opened;

5. The brokerage and/or chat site may "train" the trader in the hopes he/she does not go bankrupt too soon;

6. The site issues countless buy and sell advisories, in an effort to rack up as high a trading volume of its members for commissions as possible;

7. For providing this commission revenue stream, the broker pays the chat site a percentage of all commissions (often as high as 30%).


All perfectly despicable.

All absolutely and completely illegal in the United States.

All continuing to take place right now, today, at many well-known chat sites and brokerage firms - all moral concerns, ethical dilemmas and securities laws bedamned.

It is time for this particularly pernicious form of abuse to be halted, immediately. Many of us are working to this end and will continue to keep you informed of our progress.

Sincerely,

Olivier L. F. Asser



To: CountofMoneyCristo who wrote (2461)5/23/2001 8:37:51 PM
From: EL KABONG!!!  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 5315
 
Boy, all this talk about commercial web sites has certainly whetted my appetite to do some quick research. I have no idea what any of this means. It's just random things I found that make no sense to me but might be of interest to other folks.

Let's start off with mirror sites. Was anyone aware that Pristine.com has a mirror URL at Prestine.com (note the spelling). No idea of why though. Maybe it was done merely to thwart any attempt by some computer rapscallions to "steal" traffic away from Pristine.com when an innocent user mistakenly types in the wrong URL. Both sites seem to have nearly identical records in Internic... Note that Mr. Anthony Nunes is the administrative contact, and his e-mail address places him at WCO.com, though the business address indicates Nunes Corporation in Nevada.
pristine.com
networksolutions.com
prestine.com
networksolutions.com

Next. let's look at MrSwing.com, which holds itself out to be an Internet web site for swing traders. Internic shows this URL to be registered in South Africa (South Africa???), yet it is hosted in the USA, specifically in Boca Raton, Florida (by Verio Hostmaster at 5050 Blue Lake Drive). MrSwing is apparently the brainchild of a Mr. Van Duuren, presumably (from the address offered at Internic, of which I am highly skeptical). Who is Mr. Van Duuren? Why register the site from South Africa, yet host it in Boca Raton? I have no idea regarding South Africa and Boca Raton, but I was able to locate several Mr. Van Duurens. One Mr. Van Duuren (in the Netherlands) has an e-mail address on one of his registrations that might indicate an association (past or current) with e-trade (in the Netherlands), but this isn't the same guy. To be sure, there are other Van Duurens as well in Internic, all of them in the Netherlands, so I think it's fairly safe to presume that the Van Duuren from MrSwing.com may have some past or current roots in the Netherlands. In looking at mrswing.com itself, we find a testimonials page. Hello? What's this? The very first "endorsement" comes from two of the principals of Pristine.com, Mr. Velez and Mr. Nunes. We also find advertising for Pristine.com on these pages. <Click> on the ad, and voila!!! And what have we here? A hit on an old metatag for WSO.com that indicates that MrSwing used to be found under the WSO.com domain (http://www.wso.com/store/mrswing/1day.htm, plus many others; use the Lycos search engine for "MrSwing"). WSO? Isn't that the e-mail address used used by Mr. Nunes on one of his Internic registrations? Yep... Back to the identity of Mr. Van Duuren. From financemag.com, we find that Mr. Van Duuren is one Frederik Van Duuren. From the United Kingdom, we see that they refer to Mr. Van Duuren as a "noted trader". (Still trying to figure out why MrSwing is registered from South Africa though... Netherlands, United Kingdom, South Africa... It's beyond my meager abilities to understand.) I wasn't able to find any other links that independently documented Mr. Van Duuren's trading abilities.
mrswing.com
mrswing.com
networksolutions.com
networksolutions.com!EVD76&id=0
networksolutions.com!EVD127&id=0
financemag.com
pressbox.co.uk
pressbox.co.uk

Now let's take a real quick look at Market Gems. Internic shows it to be registered out of Boca Raton, Florida. Wait a second. Now ain't this a coincidence. The hosting site is listed as Rapidsite, Inc, but it has the same street address as MrSwing's host (which was Verio). Small world I guess...

networksolutions.com

Okay, I've done my research for today and made a contribution to this thread. Now it's someone else's turn...

KJC

PS - Pristine.com is offering up a 10 day cruise to Greece and Turkey, during which time you'll get to see all the touristy sites and learn the Pristine trading system as well. Only about $6 grand or so, and they indicate that educational cruises are tax deductible. (Quote: "*Educational Cruises are fully tax deductible") Whoowhee!
pristine.com