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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (24287)	8/23/2001 11:12:31 AM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Your characterization has so little to do with what I wrote that I do not know how to respond. No one said anything about "good guys/bad guys"......

To: Dayuhan who wrote (24287)	8/23/2001 2:30:12 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

. I see nothing to be gained by viewing the age-old process of conflict, change and growth as a conflict between white hats and black hats. I guess I started this. My hope in pointing out what seems to be a binary bias was to show that it doesn't matter where the values and principles come from. We (the larger society, as well as this thread) put altogether too much energy, IMO, into which source of values is the preferred one. If society is going to hell in the proverbial hand basket, I think it's a question of behavior, not belief systems. I'd like to see those who care about our society focus less on displaying the Ten Commandments and more on modeling and reinforcing healthy, constructive behaviors. Karen

To: Dayuhan who wrote (24287)	8/24/2001 12:48:01 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

>>I find the PM/OP distinction simplistic to the point of absurdity. You are not talking about conflicts between people who had principles and morals and people who did not have them. You are talking about conflicts among people who had different sets of principles and morals. I see nothing to be gained by viewing the age-old process of conflict, change and growth as a conflict between white hats and black hats. It's just not that simple. << I agree with that. But I actually think the "argument" was a little more nuanced than as you framed it. It appeared to be more an argument based on moral relativism or absolutism. With PM representing the absolutists and OP representing the relativists. Forays were made into the realm of religion. (Which of course is not necessarily irrelevant, but OP vs. PM distilled to the core of the underlying concept can be argued quite well without injecting religion, therefore imo, it is something of a red herring) And as you point out. It is simplistic. Another Hobson's choice. So the division is not clear cut. It is in the extreme. Although, in fact, there are true absolutists and true relativists. Both ends of the spectrum, imo, represent the opposite sides of the bell curve in society. So, that being said, I think most individuals believe ( at least in theory ) that they are absolutists, however I believe they are in practice "relatively absolute" .