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To: craig crawford who wrote (131568)	9/20/2001 12:31:18 PM
From: Oeconomicus	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 164684

Craig, I can't believe you would defend Pat Buchanan and isolationism. It is isolationism that allowed Hitler to conquer most of Europe and parts of Africa before we used the excuse of Pearl Harbor to muster support for coming to the defense of our friends. Had we entered the war earlier, millions of lives would likely have been saved. But then I suppose Buchanan doesn't care about humanity. Bob

To: craig crawford who wrote (131568)	9/20/2001 12:53:16 PM
From: Alomex	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

but many of those occurred in our own hemisphere. As I said, the hemispheric restriction is wholy made up. The Monroe doctrine only applies to the Americas. Initially the US could only assert itself on this continent and it did so. As the country got stronger we started expanding to the entire non-european hemisphere (viz. Hawaii, Japan, Phillipines, China). By the end of those "magical" 150 years mentioned by Buchanan the US had already fought in World War I. Pat Buchanan likes to pretend that the US is not a global power, that it has no global interests and that reinstituting the dark ages is the solution to modern problems. Reality is the USA is the most powerful country in the world, with strategic interests in the gold mines of Rusia and South Africa, in the nickel mines of Canada, in the coffee and cocoa plantations of Africa, in the oil fields of the Middle East, in the engineering rooms of Germany, in the vineyards of France, in the tomato plantations of Mexico, the copper mines of Chile, the beef market of Argentina. The USA must act on those interests to keep its way of life, its living standard, and its internal and external security. It should act with restrain and good judgement and with respect to other countries rights, but it must (and does) act to protect its interests.

To: craig crawford who wrote (131568)	9/20/2001 12:55:18 PM
From: Alomex	Respond to of 164684

for one thing the article referred to the first 150 years in our nation's history, not the last 170. there is some overlap there. Duh. 170 is a typo. I only listed military actions within the first 150 years, which is the time span chosen by pitchfork Pat. Note that World War I falls within this time span.

To: craig crawford who wrote (131568)	9/20/2001 7:55:03 PM
From: Victor Lazlo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 164684

ME countries have been contributing far less in recent yrs to our energy consumption than they used to. We have found in peaceful lands, and we consume, hugely more nat gas than a decade ago. I think that we need to hit hard at the scum who killed 6100 people in NY, D.C. and Penn. But in the last week, I have really come to think that we also need to withdraw somewhat from the ME. We simply don't have as much at stake as we used to. We should still support Israel, but getting out of Saudi Arabia and putting a halt to all this silly hopeless global altruism and intervetnion in civil wars in far-flung regions would help a lot to reduce tension.