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To: wanna_bmw who wrote (57639)	10/8/2001 12:51:13 AM
From: Eric K.	Read Replies (6) \| Respond to of 275872

Re: Hitler is a great example of a military genius that was able to fool... Hitler was a military genius who couldn't manage to rise above corporal during the First World War? Hitler had a powerful rhetoric that resonated with latent anti-Semitism present in a large swath of the German population. He received almost 1/3 of the German vote in the free and fair 1930 election, long before any of his military "ability" could be demonstrated. However, this is irrelevant to the main point. It is not "questioning our values" to contemplate why 20 educated, intelligent people plus a network of at least a few dozen supporters, all of whom spent at least some time in the West, chose to blow up American buildings and kill thousands of cilivians. It is very convenient to posit that they are an evil, depraved bunch somehow offended by the existence of prosperity and freedom in America. Jealousy and irrational beliefs have motivated many terrible incidents in human history, but after having read around twenty of Team Bin Laden's pieces over the last decade, what I see is a bunch of (mostly) Arabs who are really pissed off about persistent and sustained American support for Zionism over the right to hope and opportunity for their Palestinian "brothers" and frustration over the million or so Iraqi people who have died after a decade of sanctions that have yet to yield any positive changes in the leadership of Iraq. -Eric

To: wanna_bmw who wrote (57639)	10/8/2001 1:21:29 AM
From: maui_dude	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 275872

BMW, Re : "Apparently, these words are so masterfully spun that they are causing some Americans to question our beliefs." True. He's playing with words to manipulate us. But be sure to keep your thinking hat on all the time. Saddam Hussain masterfully manipulates his people. Israeli leaders to the same and our leader so the same with us. Doesn't justify sept 11 attacks and he should be absolutely condemned for it. Re : "Madmen don't rise to power by being fools. Hitler is a great example of a military genius that was able to fool the generally good hearted German citizens into committing devastating hate crimes." The question is not whether Hitler or Saddam or OBL manipulate their people. The question I ask myself is why would good-hearted, intelligent Germans or a reasonably large population in the mideast get 'fooled' by these manipulator ? Is it because they are stupid, or it is because they have been pushed to such a hopeless situation for so long they they are even willing to listen to Hitlers and OBLs ? Whey isn't every single individual in this world coming out and denouncing such cowardly act of sept 11 ? Is it because they are just jealous of our prosperity ? Is it because they are all evil fanatics ? What OBL says in his tape has a clue to that. I sure hope we all condemn what happened on Sept 11. And, I also hope we are as vocal when Israelis attack Palestianians (and vice versa), when Iraq attacks Kuwait or when US sanctions is (at least partially) responsible for 500,000 Iraqi civilian deaths. Make sure you show no preferential treatment when our leaders try to manipulate us. Maui. PS : Are we allowed OT again ?