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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: KyrosL who wrote (4435)	10/12/2001 12:43:49 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

its World War II casualties were 12,000, which means that a higher percentage of New Zealanders died in WW II than Americans That's because we believed in making the OTHER GUY die for HIS country.... :0) And btw, you can blame Monty and some of the other timid british leadership for those losses. Look at all the Canadians who died in Normandy, all because Monty chose not to capture Caen on D-Day, but rather "consolidate" his beachhead. They fought over that piece of real estate for two solid months and suffered horrendous losses. Hawk

To: KyrosL who wrote (4435)	10/12/2001 5:09:08 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 281500

Kyros, New Zealand was also host to APEC [which Bill Clinton was attended] immediately after East Timorese were being murdered by Indonesian militia, in a reprise of Rwanda, after voting for independence. New Zealand and Australia were the first to take action. The USA knew where East Timor was, Condoleezza Rice being fairly knowledgeable, but it was only because of the high profile APEC meeting right here in Auckland that the USA reluctantly became involved [in a support role]. With friends like Cobalt Blue and the USA [Bill Clinton cut off one of our main exports, sheep meat, against WTO rules - we might have to kick the USA out and let China in], New Zealand doesn't need too many enemies. New Zealand agreed to take some Afghan refugees just before the WTC attack and they were delivered not long after. They are now in my home village [Mangere] preparatory to being acclimatized to their new home. New Zealand SAS soldiers are now in Afghanistan. They have been in the Middle East for ages. One was killed, along with some USA soldiers, when a blunder was made by a USA pilot on a bombing training run. My father was fighting in WWII in the Middle East while the Yanks were still cowering behind the Atlantic Ocean Maginot Line. The Japanese reached over the Pacific and attacked them which forced them belatedly into the war. It's irritating to be lectured by ignorant, arrogant people who have only recently learned that international civilisation is a good idea and support for terrorism is not[Cobalt Blue's friends financially support IRA terrorism - I wonder if they are revising their ideas in the face of WTC]. Curly Blue died a coule of days ago. He was 105. He is the second to last New Zealander who fought in WWI and has a street named after him in France and is a local hero. nzherald.co.nz <... Eighty-three years ago, Curly Blyth and his comrades in the New Zealand Rifle Brigade earned the gratitude of the little walled town when they fixed bayonets, scaled ancient ramparts and routed the occupying German soldiers. The attack on November 4, 1918, was the last significant action of the war involving New Zealand troops. It forged a bond between New Zealand and Le Quesnoy which has since been unbroken. In the neighbouring village of Beaudignies, a street leading to the town square has been named Place du Colonel Blyth. Colonel Blyth was awarded the Military Medal during the 1914-18 war and later France's Cross of Lorraine and the Legion of Honour. ... Gassed at the Somme and shot in the head at Messines, he recovered and was selected for officer training. Commissioned, he led a company that captured a section of railway on the left of the division when the New Zealanders took Le Quesnoy. ...> Hawkmoon, you will notice he didn't die for his country. Your gratuitous comment about 12,000 New Zealand soldiers who went to fight for freedom and civilization as far from home as it's possible to go should embarrass you. Contemptuous, arrogant, bullying is not a loved characteristic around the world. Americans wonder why they are not universally loved around the world and even hated by a lot of people. The biggest, toughest, richest have to live by rules different from the rest - a higher standard, not equal or lower. Thanks for taking the trouble to point those NZ details out Kyros. NZ was also fighting in Korea [I met a great uncle a few days ago, who married a Japanese lady, who was telling me about his time over there]. Not to mention in the war against Iraq's invasion of Kuwait and acting as UN peacekeepers all over the place. I was really pleased to see Tony Blair suggest that Afghanistan should be run as a self-governing United Nations protectorate. I hope that develops political legs Tekuboi-san; you saw it first "from the sidelines". How about phoning Condominium Rice and Colonisation Powell a call and suggest they adopt that as official USA policy? It would almost immediately resolve the whole business because Afghans would love it! Oil pipeline construction and tolls would get Afghanistan's economy going [meaning a new pipeline could be built to the Arabian Sea - the first link from USSR to the southern oceans, happening under capitalism and freedom instead of Stalinist-style repression]. Development of the United Nations into a federal sovereign political entity is the way to civilization for countries like Afghanistan, East Timor, Palestine, Iraq and the like. I don't expect Hawkmoon or Cobalt Blue to understand much or apologize for ignorant, arrogant, insults. But they should not be surprised when people around the world don't fawningly admire the USA - they are part of the public face of the USA. A United Nations solution in Afghanistan is much more palatable than a Cobalt Blue/Hawkmoon regime. Hawkmoon, you could send Curly Blyth's family an apology for your comment and include a note of appreciation. I wonder if the villagers of My Lai have named a street after Lt William Calley. Americans are not the only people who enjoy and are prepared to defend freedom. Incidentally, my father didn't die for his country either, [lucky for me], but he made some Germans die for their Nazi ideals. Mqurice PS: It's a small world after all. I'd like to teach the world to sing, in perfect harmony; Anita [TM] had a dream about that last night...

To: KyrosL who wrote (4435)	10/12/2001 5:22:37 PM
From: Michael Watkins	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Canada's military has been in danger of being marginalized for some time, despite our long history of being right there in time of need at hotspots around the world. We had massive losses as well in WWII, having joined the fight in the first week after Germany started its invasion. It wasn't for years that the US joined the battle. I am not critizing the US at all in this; certainly much has changed since then and we Canadians should take a page or two from our southern neighbour. For one, I believe Canada needs to vastly increase its spending on the military. I also feel that a coordinated approach to North American security is a neccessity - something that our liberal government has been publically loathe to consider but probably will relent to eventually. I think democratic societies tend more often than not to learn from their mistakes; it seems like democratic-world opinion has galvanized rather quickly around this issue (despite there being no simple answers) and that is encouraging.