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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bald Eagle who wrote (10360)	11/14/2001 6:10:07 PM
From: Condor	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

BTW, would you not defend your family and friends against brutal oppressors? You don't really know unclewest do you? We do, please do yourself a favour and read a couple of thousand back posts. Message 16640440 When you got 'em down and out BE the next move you make defines what you are. Regards C

To: Bald Eagle who wrote (10360)	11/14/2001 8:47:58 PM
From: unclewest	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

The army won't take me, I'm too old for them. nuff said. so why even talk about what you would do. why not talk about what you can do or what you have done...or better yet what you are doing. What satisfaction do you get by twisting my words? none...and it was not my intent...i just took them at face value. all of the things you listed...are reason enough to fight and kill...no argument. IF I had been oppressed and had my sons forced to fight under the threat of death, IF my female friends and family members had been beaten and executed by an oppressive regime, I would be willing to kill them when I had a chance. but in a post i made discussing killing after the battle, you said that you would kill them all even if they surrendered. i asked for details about how you would do it. you suddenly discovered you are too old to do it. ok...old man...now you know action counts and talk is cheap...sit back here with us old farts and talk. look, listen and think...then try to imagine how it really is...try to imagine pulling the trigger on someone who has dropped his weapon, raised his hands and totally surrendered to your will. do you really think you will feel better. do you really think his wife and kids should not be killed too because they will be harmless. won't you kill them all? individuals seldom surrender...more likely is to get a unit. will you really be comfortable killing a group of peasant men who never heard of the WTC. think about the blood, the cries and the screams...try to imagine it. most of 1968 i was a senior instructor on the tower committee of the airborne school at ft benning. i lived in the first housing area on the left as you enter the main gate. a few houses down lived a guy named Lt. bill calley. he was waiting to be court martialed for an incident that happened in march of that year. everything about my lai was tough for our guys...murphy was everywhere and everything went wrong. we took too many casualties...yet not one member of that platoon, not one helicopter pilot who saw what happened, nobody who witnessed the slaughter of men, women and children could sleep. all involved or witnesses were deeply remorseful. calley said in court... "In all my years in the Army I was never taught that communists were human beings. We were there to kill ideology carried by -- I don't know -- pawns, blobs of flesh. I was there to destroy communism. We never conceived of people, men, women, children, babies." -- Lt. William Calley calley's years in the army...were two. he was an idiot and a liar. his men were scared and frustrated by platoon combat losses so they killed, on his orders, unarmed civilian men, women and children. he blamed it on a radio message from his company commander...a captain medina. every combat vet i know regrets calley and his platoon's actions. i have witnessed other atrocities committed by other country's troops...maiming of bodies, collecting of body parts, etc. i believe there is no pride, no satisfaction, no sense of accomplishment in such acts. the mission of the US Army Infantry is to close with, kill, and destroy the enemy. the mission of the US Army Special Forces is to Liberate The Oppressed. clearly the two missions are related. clearly SF is willing to fight anywhere, anytime, under any conditions. let's be grateful SF, so far, is running this war with the Air Force. just as clear to me is that does not include slaughtering non-combatants no matter how long they have had that status. there are rules and there is a fighting honor amoung the pros...generally, only the rookies make bloody mistakes. it is easy for me to see that if we resort to those horrible tactics, we are the equivalent of the 9/11 hijackers. it is not clear to me why those who have no dog in this fight...and those who have no ability or desire to participate in this fight are so blood thirsty unless it is simply bravado. uw