But any proponent of responsible debate, of the process of argument, realizes that the process must have rules.
Wrt to the efficacy of the rules of logic and the facts, to resolve debate, we might have decided that this is the tool we use, but like any Judge and Jury knows, in prosecuting morality there is a lot that gets left unsaid, an unavoidable link perhaps to our own fallibility. History is full of examples where logic and the facts were easily employed to strike down those whose notions were different to conventional wisdom only for the world to later embrace such ‘heretical’ ideas. Jesus and van Gogh are good examples of ideas that were not accepted as factual or logical. Many who can “see the light” are not popular in their time and are sentenced to death, literally or figuratively, by a society that cannot contain such threats to the status quo.
This does not deny that logic has been useful in fostering modern society, but one has to look no further than the overwhelming popularity of a cultural persuasion as contained in say the Harry Potter books and now movie, where the opening weekend recorded the highest gross receipts ever, to understand that what drives us and inspires us, is Magic not Logic. Granted that’s a bit of a leap and it would be nice if our problems could be solved with the wave of a wand, but in reality we, imperfect as we are, are left to do the best we can using All avaialable tools at our disposal. Excessive and exclusive use of logic, or the opposite can very easily be twisted into fascist imperatives. I suspect I’m preaching to the converted in your case and certainly do not mean to imply that I think you are immoral.
Facts and logic may encourage us to debate well, but in reality no-one has All the facts at their fingertips and so we debate however it turns out. The facts themselves contain no vision, but a colorful debate, and I’m glad for it, can suggest ways to solve problems - facts and logic are almost the easy part, moving ahead is the tough part. As an example, a while back a poster here presented some startling facts about pre WW2 Germany, evidence that she had found deeply hidden in some academic library. These facts were a total affront to conventional wisdom on the issue as written up in the history books, and I hope for her sake that in the name of progress, when her book is published that it is not dismissed as another conspiracy theory type thing by those who would take an opposing view.
Our politicians are, like us, human, and fallible................Where America has gone wrong, she has not suffered for lack of criticism; nor should she."................But they must take these questions a step further: they must transmute them into policies and actions, that will have consequences.
If you’ll excuse the self indulgence, I find that looking at one’s own motives may yield an assessment of accountability which can often help to see things more clearly. To put this into perspective when I look at my own life for example, I can easily look back at things that I may not be so proud of, at mistakes I have made, but realistically this does not mean that I would have done anything different back then in real time.
I pretty much knew from mid adolescence that there would come a time for me to leave the country of my birth, but the exact date of this eventuality was quite indeterminable. By the time I was in my mid twenties, there were some folks out there who I could justifiably say were intent on curtailing my freedom. I figured I had about two weeks to decide where I was going to go and my dilemma was decidedly focused on where I thought I might have the best opportunities to establish a new life for myself. In many ways the grand issues such as Morality or Conspiracy etc etc hardly came into it. I did what I thought was best for me, myself and I, because despite the ins and outs of these issues, I sure as hell understood that I did not want to live my life under a Communist regime.
No National leader worth his salt, subverts his Country’s cause to the interests of others, sounds stupid to even say this but similarly on a much more personal level it is entirely normal human behaviour for each of us to do the same. It’s easy to frame or attack this as ‘conspiracy’ because we see what we want to see. I believe you have made this point. I don’t have a proper name for it because it just sort of is. Our flaws enable our greatness, if we knew we couldn’t do better we’d have no-where to go. Freedom demands uncertainty, not the facts, the fire in the belly can only be fed by the music between the notes.
You would be right if you thought that I don’t have practical solution to solving the world’s problems, but I’m aware of my limits and do what I can. At some point we each need to make a bottomline decision that balances our books and my personal takeaway, obvious as it may be, and whether others agree or not, is to realize that the US could not be such a great country without a deep and dark shadow. To deny this imho is to deny reality, and I for one do not mind staring this in the face as opposed to having it bite me in the ass. Assessing oneself or one’s country can be a brutal affair, Leaders of absolute moral purity, like Osama are a contradiction of terms, almost impossible to find, rare at best. No-one knows better than Nelson Mandela what he meant when he said “there is no easy walk to freedom.”
Thank you for the clarification as to the intent behind your posts. I have found much common sense in your postings and look forward to them, as much as I do to the postings of Marcos, Raymond Duray or anyone else. Personally I find for myself, and here comes the preachin’ - it is important not to confuse the nectar with the vessel. I have learnt a lot here, certainly more than I have contributed. |
