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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Yogizuna who wrote (42150)	1/10/2002 2:57:33 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

You are not looking at it correctly..... .... Is the person making gatling guns purely a civilian? Is the mother who teaches her child to embrace the values of bushido entirely blameless? From one perspective, even the military are not "blamed" for doing their duty, which is why we have rules of humane treatment for those who are captured. I would not like to say that a 16 year old male conscripted for the Japanese Home Army was much more guilty than anyone else in the situation, but he may have to be killed. I supported the Gulf War, but I mourned those Iraqi conscripts who were so easily crushed by tanks. Although there is reason for a residual concern for non- combatants, I am not keen to say that an Iowa boy pulled off the farm, with a murky idea of the geopolitics of the situation, is more worthy of being killed. Nor do I think that killing civilians because of the fierceness of the invasion would be superior to killing them by a bomb. In the end, concern for non- combatants is only one consideration, and can easily be vitiated by the reality that a lot of them will die anyway......

To: Yogizuna who wrote (42150)	1/10/2002 4:26:47 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

My first wife was brutally raped by a Puerto Rican, but I do not value Puerto Rican lives any less than any others... Puerto Ricans in general did not rape your ex wife. Italians in general did not beat you, and you where not attacked by Irish in general when you where 8. It's good that you don't hold grudges against these groups. I don't hold any grudge against Japanese people or Japan either. The US government held no grudge against Japan when the war ended, we built it back up, and allied with the new government. Today they are I believe our second largest trade partner. A better analogy would be not to Irish people in general but to the specific Irish person who attacked you, and not to holding a grudge forever, but to using violent means to stop the attack. If you had the power to fight off the attack there would have been nothing wrong with you having done so. If that Irish person or the Italian punks had done the equivilent of declare war on you (openly announce that they will try to kill you, perhaps after a surprise attack that only wounded you, and then tried again and again to kill you and those close to you and destroy or take your property, and there was no police to protect you or arrest those punks, then you would have been justified in using deadly force against them, even not as a direct response to a specific attack. (If there was no cops and they had kept trying to kill you, then hunting them down and killing them would IMO be justified, you would not have to wait until they attacked again and let them shoot first so that your response would be purely defensive). And if there was no cops (and in there is no supra-national police force that the US could turn to after Pearl Harbor), and you saw someone who was part of there group, who had never attacked you directly but was producing weapons that the others would use to kill you, I don't think it would be wrong to stop him from producing or transporting weapons to the would be killers, even if you had to use deadly force to do so. Tim

To: Yogizuna who wrote (42150)	1/10/2002 6:40:29 PM
From: average joe	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"...a Puerto Rican" "...Italian punks" "...an Irish young man" Well you must certainly have disdain for Catholics considering that is the religion of the three who attacked you and your family. I suppose no one is really to blame for anything and none of us can help what we do and can never be held responsible for anything. Just hope for the best before you get gunned down at the next zebra crossing. Now, all together... When I was just a little girl I asked my mother, "What will I be? Will I be pretty, will I be rich?" Here's what she said to me Que Sera Sera Whatever will be, will be The future's not ours to see Que Sera Sera Since I am just a girl in school I asked my teacher, "What should I try? Should I paint pictures, should I sing songs?" This was her wise reply Que Sera Sera Whatever will be, will be The future's not ours to see Que Sera Sera When I grew up and fell in love I asked my sweetheart, "What lies ahead? Will we have rainbows day after day?" Here's what my sweetheart said Que Sera Sera Whatever will be, will be The future's not ours to see Que Sera Sera Now I have children of my own They ask their mother, "What will I be? Will I be pretty, will I be rich?" I tell them, "Wait and see"