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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (16529)1/16/2002 6:21:54 AM
From: AlienTech  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
You fail to realise that there are 2 kinds of isolationism! One is where the people really dont care about anyone or anything else! Which is pretty common and they dont even know anything about other parts of the world.

This does not mean your influence and actions dont affect others around the globe.. It is pretty scarey just how americanised and capitalist the world has become in the last 20 years.

American policy is definetely not isolatinaist!!!! They just dont care about anything except creating markets and as long as they get what they want, why bother with the less pleasent things in life! See the article in the end Building a world empire - II. Capitalism has defeated everything else including humanity. Only god will be able to tell if that is what humanities greatest achivement will be.

But on the other hand it wont be very long before you can go to any part of the world and if you see someone smoking, just shoot them for polution. Here.. What a waste of my tax dollars!!!! If they had just taken the brains out of the people and stroed them in glass jars then we could have saved a ton of money on the feeding and guarding them.. Oh yea and shaving them!!! Hope they wore gloves when shaving the pub areas!!!

Washington, Jan 16 (AFP): Al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners were shaved for health reasons before being transferred to the US base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, a Pentagon official admitted, denying any violation of Islamic law. "All detainees are being shaved, heads and beards, before they are transported to Cuba for health and hygiene reasons," Pentagon spokesman Lieutenant Colonel Dave Lapan said yesterday. Lapan denied a breach of respect for Islam on the part of US authorities, noting: "There is no requirement in the Muslim religion to have a beard. "Obviously we are concerned with religious sensitivities, at the same time it is necessary for safety reasons." Lapan said lice had been found on almost all the prisoners. Shower facilities at the Kandahar base where the prisoners are held before they are flown to Guantanamo are insufficient for the several days of treatment necessary to combat the parasites, he said. The Pentagon official underlined that all of the Muslim prisoners had been offered a copy of the Koran, a second towel for prayer, and the appropriate amount of time for prayers to be said.

American Muslim Council spokesman Faiz Rahman said shaving off of the prisoners' beards should not have been necessary. "We are sure that the Pentagon didn't shave them to hurt their religious feelings. But it was not necessary -- we should be aware of the Muslim cultural sensitivities in that part of the world," Rahman said.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The key characteristic of this Pax Americana is that it operates not against the formal juridical order of nation-states but through it.

IN THE 120 years preceding the end of the Cold War there was never the kind of domination exercised over the system of nation-states that the U.S. exercises today. From 1870 to the First World War when Britain was the dominant imperial power, there was a growing challenge from the rising powers, U.S. and Germany. Between the two World Wars a declining Britain and France were being challenged by the U.S., Germany, Japan and the USSR. After 1945, U.S. dominance was being challenged politically-strategically-militarily by the Soviet Union with Germany and Japan gaining ground economically. The end of the Cold War and the collapse of the former USSR catapulted the U.S. to a previously unachieved level of dominance for any single country within the nation- states system. Once the initial period of uncertainty about what to do in the post-Cold War era was overcome, and those voices which had argued for establishing new, more cooperative forms of security arrangements with other countries (including former opponents) were stilled, there emerged a consensus within the American security establishment that the U.S. must consolidate and expand the unexpected and sudden hegemony that the end of the Cold War had delivered to it. Differences arise now only with respect to tactics about how this should be pursued, not in respect to the strategic goal or direction itself.

The key to understanding American foreign policy perspectives has always been provided for the overwhelming part by its hard right thinkers-strategists, not by its liberals whose main function has been to establish the limits of acceptable dissent. Today, what are the areas of American dominance, not merely influence? These are North America, Australasia, Western Europe, the Middle East and East Asia barring China. Thus the crucial Eurasian zone of the globe is flanked at both ends (east and west) by a set of American dominated and controlled alliances, with U.S. strategic dominance at its crucial oil-rich middle as well. Sub- Saharan Africa is geo-strategically irrelevant so humanitarian tragedies (Rwanda) can simply be ignored. But in the Balkans where the stakes after the end of the Cold War were whether NATO would remain the security anchor for Europe, or whether Russia and Germany would now come into their own, humanitarian principles were invoked to justify American military interventions whose deeper purpose was to overcome Russian and German challenges to its wider geo-political ambitions and arrangements. Elsewhere in this critical Eurasian zone, the U.S. has unashamedly protected allied regimes guilty of great terrorist brutalities such as Israel, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Indonesia.

Zbigniew Brzezinski with characteristic bluntness has divided today's world of unique American hegemony into ``vassals'' (all of Western Europe and Japan), ``tributaries'' (most of the rest), and those who by virtue of capabilities or inclinations must be more carefully watched as potential challengers. These are Russia, China and Iran, but not India whose elite is thoroughly Americanised and where the NRI factor provides additional powerful glue for ensuring that it becomes a strong ``tributary'' with ambitions, however, to achieving ``vassal'' status. All four of them (including Russia and China) in any case will, for a long time to come, prioritise their separate individual relations with the U.S. over their respective relations with each other. On the nuclear front, the ABM Treaty has been scuppered, with the U.S. giving six months notice that it is walking out of it. The stakes the U.S. is playing for in pursuing the BMD and associated TMD systems are very high and obvious - dominance of space and the replacement of nuclear parity with unilateral nuclear dominance. The Russians know this but are caught in a bind. They have decided to buy time and get whatever they can through soft-pedalling their opposition to the NMD rather than risk immediately deteriorating relations by criticising the U.S. strongly. They are clearly hoping that technical difficulties may eventually put paid to the larger ambitions behind the NMD project.

Regarding the international institutions set up after World War II, never before have they been so completely suborned to American will as from the 1990s onwards. From Operation Desert Storm in 1991 followed by sanctions against Iraq where U.N. `inspection missions' have been openly subordinated to the CIA to the Balkan wars where NATO was made the U.N.'s `subcontractor' in carrying out the `peace mission' to the current farce in Afghanistan where the U.N. provides the cover for a U.S.-determined interim arrangement, control of the U.N. has never been stronger.

The IMF and the World Bank are under American sway as never before. During the Mexican debt crisis in 1995, the U.S. Treasury brazenly violated the charter to command the IMF overnight to bail out American bond-holders without consultation with European and Japanese fund members. In the 1997-98 East Asian crisis, the IMF was again used as an instrument of U.S. unilateralism, most obviously to coerce South Korea. The former World Bank chief economist, Joseph Stiglitz, alienated the U.S. Treasury, and its then head, Lawrence Summers, by critiquing neo-liberal economic policies from which the U.S. benefits most and through which it has partially retrieved economic ground lost in previous post-war decades to Japan and Germany. So he had to go. Ratification of the WTO has been made conditional on it being `fair' to U.S. interests.

It is vital to note that in the 1990s the bulk of economic changes are not about trade but about expanding property rights of foreign capital holders, to enable them to have the same powers abroad as at home to buy assets, to move capital in and out, to enforce monopoly rents on intellectual property. We must realise that the new American imperialism joins the states and markets of the core countries of the world capitalist economy by offering their elites a share of the global pie thus created, although the share going to a majority of the world's poor countries and peoples is diminishing. China is still excluded from this core, while Russia has only just made its entry into the G-8.

The key characteristic of this Pax Americana, in contrast to say Pax Britannica and older imperialisms, is that it operates not against the formal juridical order of nation-states but through it. Acquiescence in American social control the world over is all that is required, not formal or territorial submission. The U.S. is happy to leave the job of controlling and shaping domestic populations to the Governments concerned. So the form of Government is of little consequence: it can be more or less democratic, whatever the exigencies of American global domination may demand.

Once again, it is the American hard right that has most clearly articulated the current American mission. In one of its house magazines, National Interest (Spring 2000), two of its prominent spokespersons, William Kristol and Robert Kagan, wrote: ``Today's international system is not built around balance of power but around American hegemony. The international financial institutions... serve American interests. The international security structures are chiefly a collection of American-led alliances... Since today's relatively benevolent circumstances are the product of our hegemonic influence, any lessening of that influence will allow others to play a larger part in shaping the world to suit their needs... American hegemony, then, must be actively maintained, just as it was actively obtained.''

This is not a world destined to improve the lot of the world's poor and exploited, or to enhance the dignity and independence of people, or to enhance a deeper and better democracy worldwide but the very reverse. To be unequivocally and consistently opposed to this American project is now a necessity not an option. The Indian elite, in its large majority, however, will not be part of this struggle.

hinduonnet.com



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (16529)1/16/2002 8:48:34 AM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
>>Israel didn't fight on the side of the US in the Gulf War because it was forbidden to do so -- the US didn't give them the friend-or-foe codes to make sure of it.<<

Until recently, I reserved judgment about the attack on the USS Liberty - until I visited the National Cryptologic Museum and saw the display there. If you recall, a recent book, Body of Secrets, claims that the NSA had a surveillance plane flying over the Liberty at the time, intercepting communications from Israeli planes and ships, and that if the intercepts were made public, it would prove that the attack was deliberate. The NSA won't admit it, but the display at the NSA museum about the USS Liberty incident was enough to tip the scales for me.

Unlike, say, the Air and Space Museum, the NSA museum doesn't get a lot of visitors. It's way outside the Beltway, small, hidden behind a gas station, but it's right off the NSA grounds. My guess is that most of the visitors are NSA employees, family, and contractors.

The display about the attack on the Liberty states that Israeli planes flew reconnaissance over the ship for two hours before attacking. The ship was flying a very large American flag during that time, and was in transit, so the flag would have been unfurled and visible. There's no way in hell the Israeli planes didn't see that flag. They shot down the flag, and the captain ordered that another American flag be raised during the attack, and the attack continued after the second flag was raised.

The people at the NSA are not stupid enough to state, publicly, that Israeli planes deliberately strafed an American ship and Israeli vessels deliberately torpedoed an American ship, but the implication is clear. Johnson let the Israelis save face for political reasons, but people in the intelligence community knew the truth.

Israel is Israel's friend.



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (16529)1/16/2002 1:15:22 PM
From: Bilow  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Hi Nadine Carroll; Re: "What are you smoking, Bilow? No one is proposing isolationism. On the contrary, the consensus is that isolationism -- paying too little attention to the outside world -- was just what exposed us to 9/11."

Plenty of people, especially on the left, have commented that it was America's excessive interest in the details of Middle East politics that exposed it to 9/11. What do you think the people in the US who've been saying that the attack was our fault mean to do? Of course they think that pulling our forces back would be an improvement.

Re: "The Democrats don't want to pull out. Have you heard a word from Daschle or Lieberman?" The reason the mainstream Democrats aren't being particular vocal about this is because currently Bush has very high ratings.

Re: "President Bush is pulling 80 - 90% approval ratings; the War on Terror is popular." As his father proved, this is not something which lasts forever. Already the Democrats are sniping at his domestic policy, the foreign policy is only a matter of time.

Re: "Is oil a driving motive for US policy or is it not?" Oil is a driving motive for US policy. But it is secondary to homeland security, and the US does not import that much oil from Saudi Arabia. Oil is more important to our European allies, that's why we will continue to support Saudi Arabia. How many US troops are stationed in Israel helping to defend it? Zero. This will remain the case.

I doubt that Bush will be able to start a war with Iraq. It's not true that all the hawks want one. The isolationists were forced to go into Afghanistan, they will also have to be forced to go into Iraq. I remind you again, the US didn't even declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the US. In the absence of a friendly regime asking for US assistance against Iraqi agression, a US war against Iraq just isn't going to happen. Iraq's regime is a military dictatorship. It is not in the same boat as the Taliban. If there were some other fundamentalist regime that was allowing terrorists to openly operate against the US, then the US might have cause to attack, but there is none.

A more realistic scenario, especially given the changes in US policy on assassination, would be for the US secret service to act against Saddam Hussein personally. But even that isn't going to happen unless the US perceives that Saddam remains a threat -- to the US.

Re: "Do the Saudis even have an armed force in any real sense? Not really." Here's some links:

Saudi Arabia is America’s top customer. Since 1990, the U.S. government, through the Pentagon’s arms export program, has arranged for the delivery of more than $39.6 billion in foreign military sales to Saudi Arabia, and an additional $394 million worth of arms were delivered to the Saudi regime through the State Department’s direct commercial sales program during that same period.
fas.org
Also see:
fas.org
cia.gov
300 AMX-30 Armored Fighting Vehicles
150 M-60A1 Main Battle Tanks

milnet.com

Yes, those were Saudi Arabian tanks that rolled into Kuwait City, and yes they were side by side with US forces. In fact, our forces regularly meet with the Saudis for joint maneuvers.

Re: "Israel didn't fight on the side of the US in the Gulf War because it was forbidden to do so -- the US didn't give them the friend-or-foe codes to make sure of it." Reread what you wrote here and work out the logic of it. Now do you understand? The fact is that Israel was a hinderance to US policy, not an asset. If Israel had flown into Iraq we'd have shot their planes down. Think about it.

Re: "I think we're going to reacquire respect in the Middle East the old-fashioned way -- we're going to beat the crap out of someone. Can't think of a nicer, more deserving guy than Saddam Hussein." Anyone who paid attention during the Afghanistan conflict should have realize that US war fighting techniques have changed. If the US attacks Iraq it will be at the command and control level.

And before the US does take out Saddam, they will give him a chance to play by the new rules. Hell, the US gave the Taliban multiple opportunities to play by the rules before bombing them.

Also note that a big reason why the US was so successful in Afghanistan was because of the help of allies on the ground, and assistance from neighboring countries.

In Iraq, the situation would be more difficult. The Kurds are out because helping them breakaway from Iraq would piss off the Turks and Iranians. I doubt that Syria will give much assistance to the elimination of the Baathist party in Iraq, and Saudi Arabia is officially cold to the idea.

Re: "Arab diplomats are saying in private, 'You swear that you will finish Saddam this time?'" I don't talk to Arab diplomats privately, but I doubt that they are saying this. I think the rumor was a trial balloon floated by the US to see who would salute it.

The shipment of defensive stuff to Israel made perfect sense in the context of (1) the US bombing of Afghanistan, and (2) the possible use of poison gas by the Intifada.

-- Carl