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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 5:57:56 PM
From: Win Smith  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
From the last article, "The battle between Russia and Saudi Arabia for oil dominance" foreignaffairs.org :

Even before September 11, concerns had been raised over American reliance on Middle East oil. Global oil demand has been increasing by between 1.5 and 2 mbd each year, a rate of growth with alarming long-term consequences. The U.S. Department of Energy and the International Energy Agency both project that global oil demand could grow from the current 77 mbd to 120 mbd in 20 years, driven by the United States and the emerging markets of South and East Asia. The agencies assume that most of the supply required to meet this demand must come from OPEC, whose production is expected to jump from 28 mbd in 1998 to 60 mbd in 2020. Virtually all of this increase would come from the Middle East, especially Saudi Arabia.

That particular analysis is sort of inconsistent with the rest of the article. If demand went up that much, there would seem to be plenty of room for both Saudi and Russian production. Then, there's the conclusion:

The critical element that Washington can add is a policy mix that would arrest the growth of U.S. oil demand by adopting a transportation policy that forces greater efficiency. This effort would take the post-September 11 world seriously. If both Washington and Moscow encouraged what their companies and publics already do -- increasing production in both countries while restraining demand in the United States -- the stage could be set for a very new petroleum world. The time has come to recognize that September 11 has opened new vistas for Russia, the United States, and OPEC.

Now, what are the odds on Washington adding that particular element? As far as I can recall, W's answer to the relatively simple policy move of increasing automotive CAFE goals was some pie-in-the-sky hydrogen fuel cells "in 10 years" thing.



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 6:01:21 PM
From: carranza2  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
According to today's NYT, Cheney reportedly backs a military action against Iraq.

Such a move is unlikely from a purely practical standpoint. How is it going to take place? Another air campaign? That strategy did not dislodge him from power. He was admittedly weakened militarily in the Gulf War, but he has had more than 10 years to rebuild. Iraq is surely not the cavalry-riding 19th century nation that the Taliban ruled.

Another question is the extent to which we have used up our bunker-busting bombs and other sophisticated military equipment in Afghanistan. Our stock of weaponry may very well be low.

From a political standpoint, there has been no convincing case made to the Mid-Eastern elites and to its populace that Saddam deserves annihilation. Without their support, the political risks seem high. Why lose the political capital gained from the successful Afghan campaign in a dicey venture?



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 6:03:33 PM
From: maceng2  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Great read thanks.

re Iraq. My view is that the official sanctions did hit the wrong guys. Looks like the smuggling etc didn't stop Saddam. That article reinforces my point.

USA could miss a lot of flack by not playing the "bad guy", and same time help the normal folks in that region.

But yes, it's beginning to look as if some affirmative action is required against Saddam & co.

Hope Bush squares away something with Putin soon on that subject. Russian assistance to the Western cause would be very desirable.

My tuppence worth is that the Afghanistan situation will worsen considerably if we attack Iraq. Those guys will play on it for sure.

I say stay focused on Afghanistan, "give up" on Iraq, and play a PR game that the USA are peaceful good guys until Saddam & co do something the ROW does not like. Then nail the SOB for sure this time. <ng> It sounds like a dangerous policy (it is), but I see it as least dangerous.



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 8:50:33 PM
From: JohnM  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
New FA articles...

Thanks for the links, tek. I've read the first two and have some thoughts.

The first, Pollack, I read last night as a result of the Weisberg link to it. I was impressed with the care, with the detail of the argument and how little of it I could actually judge. However, when he takes it to the question of invasion, I think it's a different matter. The issue I failed to see him address in that article is that of American public opinion. I don't see it ready for an invasion of Iraq with the attendant casualties, the lack of clear linkages to 9-11, and the difficult task of doing so without some sort of coalition.

Thus, if you follow Pollack's logic to its end, I think you wind up unable to do anything.

As for the Gause piece on Martin Kramer's book, that's something we should have had long ago. It's the kind of balanced discussion of the issues that needs to be done. Someone should recommend reading Gause on these topics, not Kramer. My conclusion from that is the reason for all the anomalies Gause finds is that Kramer is either avenging personal attacks on his friends or is ideologically driven. It's hard to imagine anything else accounting for it.

Now on to energy dominance.

John (irresponsible one liner response person that I am)



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 9:15:37 PM
From: JohnM  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
New FA articles...

Thanks also to tek for the energy dominance article. I found it a little difficult to follow, not as clearly written as the other two, but intriguing, very intriguing. I will file it the better to keep up with these issues in the future.

These three articles suggest a couple of things to me:

(1) tek has argued that Foreign Affairs is no longer quite so heavily US establishmentarian--these articles are definitely not strong evidence in his favor but some--Pollack is surely a part of the in group, Gause unlikely so, and I have no idea about the two authors of the energy article--but the viewpoints embodied don't seem to me to stray very far from what I would imagine to be establishmentarian (wonderful word).

(2) these are the kinds of articles which help one read beneath the news, an old C. Wright Mills phrase from the 50s which he attributed to sociological skills--reading articles this well done in FA help one get a leg up on the same thing in international relations. Or so it seems to me.

John



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 10:06:24 PM
From: frankw1900  Respond to of 281500
 
The one factor that constricts the ability of Russia and
Kazakhstan to increase exports more than production
capacity is infrastructure -- namely, inadequate pipelines
and port facilities. But since September 11, export
infrastructure has been enlarging and will accelerate.


Is it possible that Saudi export of Islamism is not as unworldly as I might have thought?

Reminds me of my own ancestors: Missionary work was always worthwhile and if it showed a profit, so much the better.



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/15/2002 10:07:36 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander  Respond to of 281500
 
Turkey, and Kurdistan??

Iranistan?? Kurdey or Kurdini??

Intersting that both old buddy Saddam and old buddy the Shah and present buddy Turkey is
buddy USA??

As well as kind of buddy kurds??



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/16/2002 7:31:52 AM
From: SirRealist  Read Replies (4) | Respond to of 281500
 
I read the articles urging us to invade Iraq and the one providing insight into the emerging Russian oil market relative to world supply (I skimmed the third as it's an area that's not on my list of immediate concerns, which are driven by the immediacy of plans afoot that will be complete long before any university is likely to even make a multi-committee decision on where to do lunch).

I have enormous concerns with the plausibility of the ambitious goals laid out in the Iraq ITR plan (invade, topple & rebuild) and I am suspect of the analysis put forth in the evolving oil dynamic article. Yet I consider a complete understanding of both topics to be instrumental in formulating a successful foreign policy for the Middle East in the next quarter century.

Starting with the oil article, Edward L. Morse appears to be an established expert on oil matters and an accomplished analyst/author ( cfr.org!214 ) , who writes often for Foreign Affairs but does not appear to be a staff member ( cfr.org )

Since I have read none of his other works, I can't offer a reasoned judgment on his expertise (though it seems to be considerable enough to meet most standards) or his objectivity in analysis. It is the latter regard that concerns me most, as he serves as Executive Adviser at Hess Energy Trading Co., LLC.

His co-author, James Richard, is listed as "a portfolio manager at Firebird Management, an investment fund active in eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia."

These professional positions lend credence to the idea that the two know the oil business intimately. Production & refining capabilities, demand, development of future oil infrastructures, OPEC history, investment possibilities and even the international global politics of oil are all within the probable bailiwick of one or both of these authors.

But two areas of analysis remain suspect. First, there is the possibility that they'll advance positions likely to be advantageous to their companies. Even if we choose to grant that they are magnanimous enough not to push ideas that might directly line their company coffers, it is reasonable to conclude that they are both in favor of the oil business and its profitability. Which can, at least, slightly skew their objectivity.

Second, in being pro-oil business, it raises the biggest question about their perspectives on alternate energy possibilities. Indeed, the analysis presents a dismissive approach to that topic. It's almost entirely contained in one concluding paragraph:

"The critical element that Washington can add is a policy mix that would arrest the growth of U.S. oil demand by adopting a transportation policy that forces greater efficiency. This effort would take the post-September 11 world seriously. If both Washington and Moscow encouraged what their companies and publics already do -- increasing production in both countries while restraining demand in the United States -- the stage could be set for a very new petroleum world."

"Restraining demand" via "adopting a transportation policy that forces greater efficiency" is a pretty limited description of one choice out of many that could be applied to the demand end of the equation. It brings to mind 'greater fuel efficiency standards' and 'smaller vehicles' which are roads we've already travelled with little success.

Given that several large and medium size auto companies are jointly working in concert with hydrogen fuel cell companies, while other companies are developing similar cells to provide self-contained onsite power generation to homes and businesses, I think they gave short shrift to the discussion of reducing demand. As other innovative technologies are spawned and fleshed out (bullet trains, Ginger the human mobility device, net conferencing to reduce jet travel demands, etc), there are a myriad of choices to be made in demand reduction.

Adding another paragraph or two for balance would not have detracted from the scope of the article. In fact, it would have bolstered it since they wrote (with my bolding):

"The U.S. increase in imports accounts for more than a third of the total increase in oil trade and more than half of the total increase in OPEC's production during the 1990s. This fact, together with the fall in U.S. oil production, means that the United States will remain the single most important force in the oil market."

But perhaps that was viewed as extraneous to their conclusions, which largely focus on issues of supply: Russia/Central Asia's competition with Saudi Arabia/OPEC, pipeline and transport options for the former, greater economic stability and efficiency for the former, and the post 9-11 reassessment of the odd couple partnership existing between the US and Saudi Arabia.

Consider the phrasing about the US options with Russia:

"significant room remains for U.S. influence, whether good or bad. " >SNIP<

"Unilateral economic favors dispensed by Washington, for example, could bankroll Russia's " >SNIP<

"If the U.S. government desires to get more involved in supporting Russian " >SNIP<

"The United States can also support legislation that further promotes " >SNIP<

"In addition, Washington can aid the effort to stop such practices by improving the educational and training programs " >SNIP<

And note the added tone of the word I bolded here:

"In the oil and gas sector, Americans must help the Russians and the Kazakhs determine the most efficient export routes " >SNIP<

And the direction leaned to towards the end:

"In the long term, Moscow may have far more going for it than Riyadh. " >SNIP<

"Riyadh, on the other hand, might have vast known reserves, but it also has a closed state monopoly. Most alarming, Saudi Arabia has been unable for 20 years to increase its production capacity" >SNIP<

"If both Washington and Moscow encouraged what their companies and publics already do -- increasing production in both countries while restraining demand in the United States -- the stage could be set for a very new petroleum world. " >SNIP<

Morse, as an adviser to an energy trading firm, is probably open to going wherever increased profitability lies. But Field's company is "an investment fund active in eastern Europe, Russia, and Central Asia", so there's no doubt which solutions directly impact his bottom line; it's the ones the article leans to.

I don't mean to suggest that there aren't other good reasons to give considerable weight to non-Saudi options after all that's come to increasing public light post-9-11. Human, political and economic costs of altering current arrangements must be carefully weighed in determining our course, but these gentleman rarely move beyond business feasibilities and how the US can aid them.

Had the article been a roundtable discussion with these two, a financial analyst with a macro view of the economic impact on world markets of decisions made favoring Russia or Saudi Arabia, a political analyst to discuss the sociopolitical aspects of same, and an alternate energy expert of the stature of, say, Amory Lovins, I think the full scope and ramifications of the coming decisions could be explored far more thoroughly.

*************************

Kev@everybuddy'sacri.tic

Note: I also intended to address the article advocating the ITR of Iraq but it's late and I've written enough for one post. I will write the second this weekend, and intend to revisit Mr. Morse's words a bit more, as well.

If you must know, I think the invasion idea is wrong, but not for the reasons you might suspect. Indeed, one of the options deserving of consideration that the author failed to mention is a nuclear strike to the tip of Hussein's pointy little head.

Stay tuned.



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/17/2002 5:17:46 AM
From: SirRealist  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 281500
 
Pollack argues for an offensive against Iraq at the earliest opportunity and presents a compelling case.

To summarize: sanctions is an endless game of cat & mouse that Hussein has begun to outmaneuver us in, with other nations openly ignoring them. Deterrence is too risky because no-one's sure how long Hussein can be deterred, with his past record of military miscalculations. But we cannot wait for him to develop nuclear capabilities; he's just gotta go.

Checking off the options, there's an insubstantial base of available proxies to fight the war for us. Perceived half measures will lose the support of allies and will not work, as the last Gulf War made clear: his troops did not quit after punishing air attacks as the Taliban did in Afghanistan.

Pollack claims the only remaining option is committing sufficient ground troops to ensure the fall of Hussein and the reconstruction of a government that is not hostile to us. This would have the added benefits of reducing the need to have a sizable military presence committed to the region and reducing our position as an ongoing irritant to the Muslim world. In his estimation, Arab neighbors would stay on board and worldwide, the loudest dissent would come from France, Russia and China. Which we could ignore.

In his words:

"The military aspects of an invasion, actually, are likely to be the easiest part of the deal. The diplomatic fallout will probably be more difficult, with its severity directly related to the length of the campaign and the certainty of its outcome. Just as in Afghanistan, the longer it drags on and the more uncertain it looks, the more dissent will be heard, both at home and abroad -- whereas the quicker and more decisive the victory, the more palatable it will be for all concerned."

Considering his experience, knowledge, and contacts, his judgment about the first end goal and our capability to accomplish it cannot be dismissed and few would have greater resources at their command to mount a counter-argument.

But on that first desired end, I'd ask if there's a better guarantee of toppling Hussein with less lives at risk on both sides. Simply: is it time to uncork the nuclear genie again?

Such a consideration cannot come easily; to one whose stomach churns at the mere thought of that, it is difficult even to put these words down in writing. But as I see it, that option must be reviewed, with these considerations analyzed:

1) With fortified bunkers and a record of evasiveness, Hussein might survive conventional theater attacks with Plans B, C, D, etc in place that could include the launch of bio-chemical weaponry most experts feel he already possesses. A first strike that immediately takes him and his inner circle and successors out instantly eliminates most incentives for his troops to continue. And likely ends the threat of a counterattack with WMD.

2) It would permanently erase all doubts throughout the Muslim world about our willingness to wage war at its most extreme. Though the immediate outrage would be large, the realization of our willingness to go that far would cause the most extreme to recognize the folly of any further physical confrontations. Beyond the anger, it would trigger a profound soul searching for a better way.

3)Both of those impacts were felt on August 6th and 9th, 1945, when the atomic bomb debuted against an enemy whose fanaticism parallels the fanaticism we face today. Historic evidence of the desired result exists. Still, the negatives must be addressed.

4) Would someone else step into the fray? China and Russia immediately come to mind. Going back to the Morse article about oil, Russia is actually an oil-producing competitor to Iraq. It's chief interest would be who would end up controlling that oil. As well, Iraq owes a sizable debt to Russia. Since most of its interest there is monetary, rather than strategic (I'm guessing), Russian support might be buyable. And thus allied, Russian and US diplomats quite likely could persuade China to stand down.

5) What about lesser nuclear powers? Most are allies. The other known nuclear powers who might wish to retaliate lack the throw capacity to reach the US. Countries with significant Muslim populations who might wish to do so include Pakistan, and India, and it's conceivable that Iraq and Iran might have some nuclear capacity but none could target the US.

6) Would they target Israel? Only at the risk of a stronger response than they can deliver. And it cannot be stressed enough that an alliance of Russia and the US has the potential capacity to convince the entire world to stand down.

7) What about civilian casualties in Iraq? First, it would be convenient if Hussein would step outside of Baghdad for a moment. That's unlikely; if he did so and our intelligence picked it up he would likely be targetable with lesser weapons. Second, I am far from expert in nuclear weaponry, but the sense I get is there are smaller nuclear weapons available that could limit the swath of destruction. It could well be argued that the single strike would reduce overall casualties of a longer war with a single strike.

8) Admittedly, the moral dillemma is one of the two greatest arguments against this strategy. It is, after all, the Iraqi leadership that is hostile. Can we justify such an action without evidence of a hostile citizenry (as was the case in Japan) and without evidence that Hussein has done anything recently to warrant such a response? I doubt it. However, if in the buildup or initiation of hostilities with Iraq, Hussein lets loose with a single weapon of mass destruction, I believe a nuclear counter-strike could be defended.

9) The other greatest argument against this consideration goes back to a threat Osama Bin Ladin made. He indicated that if we resorted to WMDs, so would Al Qaida. Was that bluster? Nobody is certain. However, if Al Qaida operatives have a biochemical or nuclear capability, the experts I've heard suggest it is small, and would likely be a 'last parting shot' deal. Still, it's a considerable deterrent to our use of nukes, but it may not be deterrent enough.

Rather than conclude that I've developed a Strangelovian bent in this analysis, first reconsider the positives. A nuclear strike would achieve the first objective of eliminating a hostile government with an immediate potential to unleash WMDS against its neighbors, against our troops in conventional battles, and with a past history of supporting terrorist organizations.

Second, it would send the message that what many view as 'the unthinkable' is not; that any major assault on US soil will make the unthinkable possible against all participants in that assault, be it a hostile nation, a terrorist group, or a nation abetting that terrorist group. That would certainly dry up support for such groups as well as providing incentive to such groups to reconsider their efforts to use force against a vastly superior force.

There's a third potential positive that might emerge, as well. Besides the clamor to drag our leadership before the World Court for civilian deaths, many throughout the world, including within our borders, would renew the old cry to eliminate nukes altogether. From such a hue and cry, the non-nuclear world would likely be quick to sign onto an agreement that would prevent the further spread of nuclear capabilities. There might even be sufficient world pressure to cause further sharp reductions in stockpiles within the leading nuclear powers, including us. A fresh reminder of the importance of limiting WMDs can't be all bad, if it creates that result too.

Again, before assuming I'm daft or bloodthirsty for proposing it, remember two things.

Most important, I'm not proposing that we use nukes to bring down Hussein and send an important message to the world. I'm only proposing that it deserves full strategic analysis as an existing option, by others far more qualified to weigh its practicality, its attendant risks, and its moral viability.

Additionally, there remains an entire remaining segment to my argument that I hope to have time to address in a Sunday posting, which Mr. Pollack did not address that deserves to be weighed and analyzed. That segment may be the decisive factor in determining whether this segment is supportable and whether Mr. Pollack's analysis is supportable.

So please reserve judgment and stay the catcalls and lynch mobs till I've completed my analysis.

-Kev@ifeelsodirty.ugh



To: tekboy who wrote (18900)2/17/2002 9:49:11 AM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (3) | Respond to of 281500
 
I hope JLA, Ish, KLP, and the others advocating attacking Iraq read Pollock's article at least to get the point that there is no connection between Saddam and 9/11.

foreignaffairs.org

I don't blame people for being confused, both 9/11 and Iraq are all over the cable news all the time.

People are mad as hell and they want to lash out at someone. The fight against Al Qaeda is not dramatic enough, they want things to get blown up, they want us to use cruise missiles and daisy cutters.

Stuff we're good at. Stuff that looks exciting on TV, stuff that Geraldo and Christianne can comment on while fires burn in the background.

We aren't very good at fighting Al Qaeda, and we need to learn how.

I don't think we should lose our focus.

The Washington Post just reported that the US military found a huge underground tunnel complex they did not know about, with the largest weapons cache so far, three miles from the Paki border. The incredible thing is that we helped build it and the info was in their possession, but did not make its way across the chain of command. No telling how many Al Qaeda were able to use it to get away while we were bombing things.

>>Zhawar's immense scope was described in military journals well before the SEAL team was sent. An article detailing its deep,
interconnecting tunnels was posted last fall on a Web site operated by the U.S. Army's Foreign Military Studies Office. It was
built with the help of U.S. money in the mid-1980s by mujaheddin forces fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, and its
importance to al Qaeda was known long before the Afghanistan war began. Zhawar was struck by dozens of U.S. cruise
missiles in 1998, when President Bill Clinton ordered an attack on the site in response to the bombings of two U.S. embassies
in east Africa.

Even after last month's destruction, U.S. forces remain focused on the site. On Feb. 4, an unmanned drone aircraft operated
from afar by the CIA fired a missile at individuals who U.S. defense and intelligence officials claim were suspected al Qaeda
members but who local residents say were innocent civilians collecting scrap metal.

U.S. military planners were not among those who read the article on the Army Web site. Prior to January's attack, Zhawar was
hit by warplanes during the campaign only once, in November. "I guess the knowledge was imperfectly shared," said Rear
Adm. Craig Quigley, a spokesman for the U.S. Central Command in Tampa. "That knowledge wasn't shared widely enough
with the people who needed to know."

Added Quigley: "Had we known in November of the huge size of the place and the amount of stuff in there, we'd have paid
more attention to it, I suspect."

When the United States began bombing Zhawar on Jan. 3, senior defense officials said they were acting on intelligence that al
Qaeda fighters were using the site to regroup and possibly escape into Pakistan, less than three miles away. Defense officials
now say they cannot rule out the possibility that the delay in attacking the site may have enabled al Qaeda members to get
away.

Ali Ahmad Jalali, a former colonel in the Afghan army who co-authored the article, called Zhawar "very important for [al
Qaeda], politically, strategically and tactically" and said he is surprised that the United States had not zeroed in on it earlier.

"I think many probably escaped from there," Jalali said. "They hit the house but left the door open."<<

washingtonpost.com

That's what I mean about losing focus. Every day, all day and night a part of my mind is worried that my own home town, Washington, D.C., is going to be attacked by those bastards and we let them walk?!?! Expletives deleted.