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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: LindyBill who wrote (29166)	5/10/2002 10:50:48 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

We may have to renew our dialogue about left vs. right and totalitarianism vs. libertarianism. One thing I'd like to discuss is whether there is any rational basis for their complaints. I don't mean "root causes." I believe man to be rational, so I wonder what is the rational basis for their beliefs. Maybe if we understood that, we'd understand how to deal with them. For example, at this far remove from the French Revolution, while I do not sanction the guillotine, I understand it. I do not sanction the methods used by Oliver Cromwell, but I understand them. I understand both the Reformation and the Counter-reformation.

To: LindyBill who wrote (29166)	5/10/2002 11:32:09 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

lindybill@justwhenyouthoughtweweresafefromtheleft.com I have yet to read the article but the little excerpt you offered jumped lots of connections. That's ok since it's summing up the argument. Will be interesting to see how well they make it. As for some sort of isomorphism between Lenin and "the left", please!! Just a little Russian history would introduce you to the Menshiviks who were certainly an oppositional group to the regime and who thought of themselves as social democrats. And that's without getting into the misapplication of "Lenin" to US politics. If you wish to reach for parellels, the present incarnation of the far right in Falwell and Robertson is closer, ideologically, to the social views of these folk.

To: LindyBill who wrote (29166)	5/10/2002 1:02:07 PM
From: tekboy	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

whoa, nellie... I agree with John and others here, Lindy--you can't make a simple equation Lenin=Marx=Left. What the authors of the piece are describing is as much a fascist movement as anything else, or rather, they are pointing out (correctly) that violent extremist movements have a lot in common with each other in ways that are not characterized easily by a simple left/right split. A good indicator of this is the reference they make to Georges Sorel, whose infatuation with revolutionary violence made him flirt with both left and right. tb@channelingthesmartoneinthefamily,tg.com