To: Enigma who wrote (14297 ) 8/27/2002 12:54:55 PM From: MSI Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 93284 "where are the chicken livered Democrats in all of this? " Both major parties' operatives are part of the problem. It is set up to be in their interests to play along. IMO very few are part of the solution, actually questioning the massive handover of wealth to lobbyist-represented interests, or the incredible rise of the All Powerful Central Government. Most of the explanation is in these two books: - "Wealth and Democracy", Kevin Phillipswealthanddemocracy.com Exlnt documentation of plutocracy of world powers as they rise and fall, especially the US right now. - "Dependent on DC", C. Twightamazon.com The latter describes clearly the contrived transaction costs in political discourse that insiders use to shovel influence and money among themselves, and to enslave outsider taxpayers and prohibit representation. Twight also devotes a chapter on government statistics, noting that there is a built-in coercion -- when you have to to go to the same organization that benefits from skewing those statistics, you'll get distortions and outright lies. Another chapter is entitled:"SYSTEMATIC FEDERAL SURVEILLANCE OF ORDINARY AMERICANS", detailing the incremental collection of legislative authorities to gather everything from your work and buying habits to SSNs at birth, and directly contrary to initial legislation, make them available to insiders, "for your own good", of course. All of this is pre-Ashcroft. He's only the most obvious. What neither book covers is the influence of covert military intel on politics starting in the 50's and 60's, and the extreme need for openness in government from top to bottom, as the solution to the above ills. With the internet, once Americans can follow the money, and the people they pay for, the jig is up. The biggest weapon against Americans by the bureacracy and special interests is obfuscation and control of the media to propagate "big lies" continuously. "Dependent on DC" touches on why the lies are created and by whom, and how stealth legislation is developed that remove our freedoms, one by one.