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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (60436)	10/1/2002 3:09:28 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"It is the best of times. It is the worst of times." I don't accept the notion of "trade off." It seems dangerous to have an attitude that we are generally better off, which is arguable); and so we should take a "go along" attitude. "Thus, in comparing earlier times with the contemporary world, we have to contrast the improvement of female emancipation with the rise of libertinism. The two are connected. Do we want to go back to a "duena society", where women are constantly protected against seduction by being chaperoned, and are not free to pursue their own goals, such as a career, or are we willing to tolerate a higher level of sexual experimentation and work towards achieving a better balance over time?" Not at all...I have done an informal survey and found that the majority of women living a "modern" life style have found themselves an an uncompromising situation of discomfort from time to time, that is specifically associated with participation as a modern role. The exceptions are likely to be labeled by their peers as cold, tough, aggressive, or by other non-feminine characteristics. There are related problems that are far worse that "protection from seduction." The "duena society," which is a non-option, is not the "other choice." There are many things that we could provide in our society now that the modern role of women has somewhat stabilized. Physical changes in the work place, and in public that reduce the likelyhood that individuals will have an experience of being isolated from their support net. Legislation is needed that supports the need to have a work environment that does not require individuals to conform to gender expectations or to be subjected to non-related work socializion. The promotion of carte blanc modernization impies a "better than thou" attitude. We live in a "modern" time. Literature reveals that we are not "better" people in principle than our ancesters. We have different challenges because of the times that may require modern solutions. At the same time forcing modernization onto more primitive cultures has led to disintigration of sub-cultures and dependant societies that are failing to thrive in some parts of the world.

To: Neocon who wrote (60436)	10/1/2002 3:21:12 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

"Thus, in comparing earlier times with the contemporary world, we have to contrast the improvement of female emancipation with the rise of libertinism. The two are connected. Do we want to go back to a "duena society", No I don't want to go back to anything. Nor do I want to go forward with a notion that "liberty" requires me to go along with every thing "libertinism" advocates in the name of modernization. My idea of Liberty is that I have no such obligation. I am free to make my associations with cultures or sub-cultures that you would label oppressive because of how you view the role of women and others would label only as traditional. What ever the trade offs are, they are not that women receive better treatment from the men in our society. Any comparison ends up being apples and oranges ('cept for the kind Joe makes, which are fiction)