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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: stockman_scott who wrote (52751)	10/17/2002 5:31:47 PM
From: Brumar89	Respond to of 281500

The three nations Bush identified as an evil axis - Iraq, Iran, and N. Korea are all 1)involved in developing nukes and, unlike the other nations of the world which possess nukes, 2)are likely not to be deterrable. Not so crazy to think a serious problem is developing.

To: stockman_scott who wrote (52751)	10/17/2002 5:33:40 PM
From: Win Smith	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

This crowd has the gall to sneer at people trying to keep the United States out of war as being "appeasers," if not traitors. They act as if it were brave for a fat, pale-skinned journalist or commentator to advocate war that will be fought by other people's sons and daughters. It is the worst kind of moral cowardice to be for war if you yourself are not going to participate in the fighting. Has Reese cleared this with the local self-appointed arbiter of when sneering is and isn't appropriate? Is sarcasm in opposition to "war early, war often" a virtue or a vice?

To: stockman_scott who wrote (52751)	10/17/2002 6:40:09 PM
From: Karen Lawrence	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

It's hard to see how the "world's worst leaders" can actually blackmail the United States with the "world's worst weapons," since the United States itself has more of these world's worst weapons than any country on the face of the earth except Russia. As a matter of fact, we might even have one of the world's worst leaders, at least as measured by competence. In fact most of the C4 ( as was used in the bombing of the club in Bali) is manufactured in the US. In fact the smallpox outbreak for which we need to get vaccinated was created in US labs. C4 is hard to buy," he said. "The best analogy is that it's considerably more controlled than heroin, but if you want to buy heroin, you can. Like all things, everything's available for a price C4 explosive a 'military issue' October 16, 2002 news.com.au THE C4 plastic explosive used in the Bali bombing is a very powerful substance mainly manufactured in the United States but widely supplied to military forces around the world. C4 resembles white, uncooked pastry or bread dough, and can be kneaded and moulded into any shape in total safety, said Mark Ribband, head of a British company that manufactures this explosive. "You can even shoot bullets in it. It needs a detonator to make it explode," he said. "C4 is pretty well used only by the military although there are some small civilian uses for it," Ribband told AFP in a phone interview from Wiltshire, southern England. "It's a standard issue, military plastic explosive based on an explosive ingredient called RDX, to which a polyisobutene plasticiser is added." Ribband said C4 was manufactured "in several countries, but it's primarily US". "If you see C4 in another country's military inventory, it tends to be because there has been American influence there, like C4 and M-16s mean America, and AK-47s and Semtex mean Eastern Bloc." The M-16 is the standard US military assault rifle whose Soviet equivalent is the Kalashnikov, or AK-47. Semtex is a powerful plastic explosive that, in the Soviet era, was made in Czechoslovakia. Ribband's company, Ribbands Explosives UK, sells explosives under a closely-controlled process that requires a government licence. "C4 is hard to buy," he said. "The best analogy is that it's considerably more controlled than heroin, but if you want to buy heroin, you can. Like all things, everything's available for a price. "For legitimate sales, it's very hard to get hold of if you are not a government, or a user with the correct government certificate. Within the community of explosives users, it's around, it's something that's used but mainly it's a military explosive. "If it's been misused, I would suspect that it's been stolen from a military force. That's the easiest way to get it, via a friendly soldier who can, let's say, do a demolition somewhere, write off the demolition as 100 kilos but would only use 90 kilos. That's the easiest way to steal it. "There'd be no question of an al-Qaeda operator turning up at a factory and saying, 'here's my money, I'd like to buy some.' That wouldn't happen." Earlier, Indonesian intelligence chief Hendropriyono told AFP that C4 was used in "one" of the Bali bombs. On Saturday night a small bomb went off outside a bar in the island's Kuta district, followed seconds later by a huge car bomb blast outside a nightclub. The blast and subsequent fire killed more than 180 people, mostly foreign tourists, according to a provisional toll. US President George Bush and Australian Prime Minister John Howard have said they suspect that the al-Qaeda terrorist network was behind the blast.

To: stockman_scott who wrote (52751)	10/17/2002 6:55:24 PM
From: epsteinbd	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I've heard exactly the same sentences eleven years ago : fighting the Forth Army of the World in the Mother Of All Battles. But, as expected, it turned out to be the Grandmother of All Battles. The only problem is that the US Grandfather wanted to stop it all after a hundred hours because the wording sounded good, historical, and he was probably convinced that the ball was running fast enough to get the Saddamites. Wrong he was. You, the US are paying for it now. Clinton wasn't any better on those matters anyway. All that because the Americans were not ready to understand the depth of the coming crisis. Then a year ago I was awashed by papers about the Soviets being Kicked out of Afghanistan, just like the Brits, etc. And today I read your link "they (in Washington) are crazy, they can't even recognize one end of the gun for another, overextention, that's why empires decline and fall. All urged by a bunch of rabid intellectual" Hey, Scott, those planners these article talk about did manage to win the Cold War, and they also know they don't need more outside help than what they already have. So it's done. The dates depend on those Who Know,the moon, temperatures, UN, logistic, MD, miscellanous. But the article is right when it mention that after Bagdad they are into Damascus. And Pyonyang. Separate time, together... they'll play the best hand into the smallest possible detail. Haven't you heard about their modus operandi during WWII ? Their level of organisation ? The undisputed fact that when they have no choice they find a Doolittle, and when they have choice, they run real pipelines deep inland just to feed the army needs behind ? Together with what some would call indoctrination programmes. Oh, worry not too much, it's only about democracy, and possibly Coca Cola and not good TV series. So yes there is a price tag. But I'd better have a hamburger with ketchup( how weird, the ketchup!) in a democracy than a tournedos Rossini sauce de Beney de Brillat Savarin in a dictatorship. Wouldn't you ? And you are the only guys who can do it. Not for me. For poor, starving, mentally enslaved guys. And gals. PLease do not forget the gals. They are only young once! You know where well enough. So please do it. In their name : Thank You In Advance, America. Signed (appocrphically) Mohammad from Bagdad, Idriss from Damascus, Khidrimam from Teheran, Ali from Bali and GoBang from Pyonyang.