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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (53059)	10/18/2002 7:47:07 PM
From: Sir Francis Drake	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Your picking on France is just plain silly. Go pick on Sweden. As a person of 100% Swedish heritage, I take great offense at this. Need I remind you of a few things? 1)The Vikings were some of the most ferocious fighters of all time. Their legendary skills and WILLINGNESS TO FIGHT made such an impression on Europe, that centuries later, the fear of Vikings persisted in songs and poems. 2)The Vikings (the Norse more generally) and their direct descendants (Normans) conquered Celtic Britain and were directly responsible for any kind of fighting spirit Britain has ever exhibited through the centuries<ggg> 3)For that matter, the Vikings were such renowned fighters that they were even asked directly by the Russians to help build their country (and btw. gave Russian its name - Rus is a Viking tribe). 4)More recently the Vasa kings bested armies all over Central, Eastern Europe and Russia - clearly outnumbered, they had a tremendous fighting spirit which allowed them to prevail. So, I hope that puts any idea that Swedes have no fighting spirit to rest. Of course, this is all tongue in cheek, but the racist/nationalist garbage that prompts juvenile statments about French "will to fight" is sadly quite prevalent among the conservative buckteheads. Just because the French don't want to jump into the same U.S. car drunk driven by G.W. Bush doesn't mean they don't have a fighting spirit. But try explaining that to the chickenhawks. Oh well, maybe we need another Vietnam experience to bring some sanity to our foreign policy - scary thing is, today with WMD and willingness to take the fight to the U.S. heartland, the price for stupidity is going to be a heck of a lot higher than Vietnam... plus you will see civilian victims on the U.S. side too. The U.S. uncritical support for the vicious colonial policies of Israel is coming home to roost, and this is barely a beginning - with morons like Bush wading in deeper and compounding the mistakes, we'll get stung very badly by that particular killer-bee nest.

To: Bilow who wrote (53059)	10/18/2002 8:33:43 PM
From: gamesmistress	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Compare [France's] military history since WW2 with that of their neighbors or other countries in the EU. OK. (if I left anything out, chime in. This of course is the individual country fighting, not including their participation in any NATO action.) France -- Indochina, Algeria (colonies) Spain -- no colonies Germany -- no colonies (and demilitarized) Belgium -- no colonies Holland -- Dutch East Indies (Indonesia, colony) Norway -- no colonies Britain -- N. Ireland, Falkland Islands Sweden -- no colonies Italy -- no colonies Ireland -- no colonies Finland -- (!? :-) no colonies Military action seems to have focused on colonies. So after WWII (still picking on France here), France decided to demonstrate its "willingness to fight" not to protect itself and its own country, but assert domination over their colonies? OK, I stand corrected, France may be "willing to fight" under certain circumstances. Given its recent convoluted history, I hate to think what those "certain circumstances" might be. BTW, I would still call that limited action, even if France suffered more casualties in Indochina than we did. There was little if any chance of the fighting spreading to other countries, and it ended when the French were decisively defeated or the political situation changed.