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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: maceng2 who wrote (53377)	10/20/2002 9:17:45 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

If the USA was a real democracy, perhaps they could have made him an ally instead of an enemy. Read that sentence a few times to make sure you understand it. For one.. the US is a representative republic, not a "real democracy", which is chaotic and requires an even more stable social fabric than we possess. Just look at the constant changes of government in those nations which exercise a unicameral form of government (parliament).. Secondly, since when is the US responsible or obligated to "create" democracy in ANY nation, let alone support a guy like Ho Chi Minh, who was a socialist/Marxist from day one (even studied in France)?? Why is he anymore legitimate to Vietnam's catholics than someone like Diem?? Just because he was a guerilla leaders against the French and Japanese?? Someone made a decision back then Pearly.. It may have been a wrong one using 20/20 hindsight, but you don't have the convenience of being able to tell us that the story wouln't have turned out any other way... There was no history of democracy in that society. But there was plenty of history related to totalitarianism, oppression, and corruption... There's no guarantee that Ho Chi Minh would have ever succeeded.. And it's quite possible that a rival would have had him assassinated.. Certainly China would not have stood still to having a democratic Vietnam right on hits borders. All of these are influences that must be considered before sending Americans on some kind of guilt trip... At least let us pack our bags first... :0) Hawk

To: maceng2 who wrote (53377)	10/20/2002 10:30:47 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

If the USA was a real democracy, perhaps they could have made him an ally instead of an enemy. Pearly, the "Bio" below shows that Ho was a Communist Agent, trained by Moscow, from the WWI on. If we had stopped the French from coming back into Indochina, the outcome would have been a complete takeover by Ho in 1945, when Ho proclaimed a Communist Government. Then, in addition to hearing "Who Lost China?" in this country, it would have been "Who Lost Vietnam?" Vietnam today is a miserable slave pen, run by old line Stalinists. I got my hair cut by a young Vietnamese Barber who lives here, and just got back from visiting her family. (Yes, they let them visit, they need the Dollars). She confirmed that analysis, one I have heard again and again from many Vietnamese I knew in California. So, if we had not been involved, don't think for a minute that there would ever have been a "Democracy" in Vietnam, any more than there is in China. >>>>> After World War I, using the pseudonym Nguyen Ai Quoc (Nguyen the Patriot), Ho engaged in radical activities and was in the founding group of the French Communist party. He was summoned to Moscow for training and, in late 1924, he was sent to Canton, China, where he organized a revolutionary movement among Vietnamese exiles. He was forced to leave China when local authorities cracked down on Communist activities, but he returned in 1930 to found the Indochinese Communist party (ICP). He stayed in Hong Kong as representative of the Communist International. In June 1931 Ho was arrested there by British police and remained in prison until his release in 1933. He then made his way back to the Soviet Union, where he reportedly spent several years recovering from tuberculosis. In 1938 he returned to China and served as an adviser with Chinese Communist armed forces. When Japan occupied Vietnam in 1941, he resumed contact with ICP leaders and helped to found a new Communist-dominated independence movement, popularly known as the Vietminh, that fought the Japanese. In August 1945, when Japan surrendered, the Vietminh seized power and proclaimed the Democratic Republic of Vietnam (DRV) in Hanoi. Ho Chi Minh, now known by his final and best-known pseudonym (which means the "Enlightener"), became president.<<<<< altenforst.de