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To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (2916)	10/20/2002 10:19:55 PM
From: Lost1	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7689

austin360.com

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (2916)	10/20/2002 11:22:12 PM
From: E	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7689

IMO you misunderstood the point Solon was making. But it's too late for me to reread and tell you why I think that. But I'll bet Solon says the same thing. I think the media are carrying too much information about the specific detail of the investigation. Like, isn't it likely that if they reveal that the FBI is examining tired tracks on a road near where the Ponderosa sniper shot from, that the sniper will change his tires? And they're studying the ink writing on the tarot card hoping to connect it to a specific pen. If the sniper reads that, won't he ditch that pen?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (2916)	10/21/2002 6:58:32 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7689

Solon: Taxes are not voluntary. Anytime you think they are, let your gov'ts know that you refuse to pay them. Then don't pay." Lazarus, the fact that an act has consequences has nothing to do with whether there was free will involved between legitimate choices. As a matter of fact I CAN voluntarily choose to NOT pay my taxes, and some people do. So do you think the choice to NOT pay them is a voluntary choice, but the choice TO pay them is not?? And if you wish to claim that two opposite choices are both NOT voluntary, then where are we to insert the notion of "voluntary" into the equation?? If you believe I can voluntarily NOT pay my taxes, then you must allow that I may voluntarily PAY my taxes. I am not "required" to not pay my taxes; so that may not be used as a rationale for insisting that my not paying my taxes is NOT a voluntary decision. In other words, the fact that an act has consequences does not mean that it is not freely chosen with due consideration being given to those consequences and to principles and values involved. I pay my taxes because I believe it is the right thing to do...NOT because I am afraid of going to jail. I have never murdered anyone, Lazarus. Do you know why? It is not because they will put me in jail if I do. It is not because I don't want to give you my cell number and have you write to me. It is because I do not believe it is a decent thing to do. It would not make me feel right. It would not make me feel like a good upstanding citizen. It would make me feel like a cheat and a social pariah, and the most pitiful and despicable of human kind...and it would destroy my peace of mind for the rest of my life. It is true that I might consider the possibility of jail as a factor in my decision if I indeed DID have some leaning toward the possibility of murder. But even then my decision could be to either murder or not, and would be entirely voluntary. And as it stands, neither the "requirements" nor the laws of society have anything whatsoever to do with my decision not to be a murderer. Even though they would lock me up if I did not pay taxes or if I murdered...the probable consequence of my choosing an act which I do not voluntarily wish to do and have no intention of doing...would, of course, not factor into my voluntary decision to do otherwise--this decision being entirely decided on other factors. Again, many many people have gone to jail or even been burned at the stake in order to voluntarily be true to their beliefs and principles regardless of negative (or positive) consequences. Fortunately, I am not being threatened with being burned alive simply for paying my taxes, so I admit it is much easier for me to pay them than if there were negative consequences for doing the right thing. Your idea that the possibility of negative consequences defines actions as not voluntary is silly and beneath you, old man. <g> If such were the case it would be feckless to ever speak of principles or values. All actions have consequences--both positive, negative, and undetermined. We could simply consider people to be mindless robots, I guess. Hey, wait a minute! That idea may bear some discussion...<g>