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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (54022)	10/22/2002 8:25:08 PM
From: Sir Francis Drake	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Haven't you just been assuring me that withdrawing to an internationally recognized border magically insures peace and harmony all around? If it didn't work in Lebanon why should any sane person expect it to work in the West Bank? Well Nadine, you're back to your Debka-style distortions. No matter how many times I say this, and how I stress this, you just don't get it. Now, either you don't have what Al Campanis has indelicately put as "necessities", or you are deliberately missing the point. Not good either way. My point - to repeat it to you for about the 10th time is: Withdrawal WITHOUT agreement will not make the attacks go away. It will not make you loved. It will not "magically insure peace and harmony all around". It WILL drastically DIMINISH Israeli CASUALTIES. This it has done, demonstrably so. Here's a few times I've made that point to you: Message 18097450 Israeli victims did fall drastically when Israel stopped occupying Lebanese territory, so there. Same will happen when they withdraw to pre-67 and give back the stolen land. Message 18133927 My point was: ISRAELI CASUALTIES diminished DRASTICALLY as a result of pulling back. That's all I claimed would happen. And isn't THAT the most important thing? I said: it will not cause them to love you. But it WILL diminish your casualties. That it did. And that was my point. If you negotiate settlement, you may even get as peaceful a situation as you got w/ Egypt when you gave back the land. But even without that, you'll AT LEAST get the Lebanon deal, which is pretty good all things considered - dramatically less casualties, and no support for the terrorists. Message 18134021 Total BS. As I've said, Israeli ********CASUALTIES***** will diminish. THEY DID. Do you dispute that? Yes, your arguments are not only poor, they are extraordinrily poor. What is your problem? You cannot for the life of you figure out what the point is. I don't think I can bold more - it is the case of willful blindness. Whatever the reason - your arguments suffer as a result. Message 18134064 But you keep claiming "attacks will stop" if Israel withdraws to "internationally recognized" boundries. Never claimed that. I claimed that the casualties will diminish. You can't stop the attacks completely - there ARE evil people, there ARE terrorists. Fact of life. And Israel has created a sea of hatred that will keep giving its fruit for decades. But the perpetrators will be smaller in number (take away those who fight for simple liberation), and have no international support in world opinion (including people like me). Message 18134096 It really is amazing how incapable you are from refraining from distortion. No matter how many times I post and stress: As I've said, Israeli ******CASUALTIES******* will diminish you still characterize that as "you keep claiming "attacks will stop"" when I did no such thing. Every which way you try to distort, and you never seem to get it right. Boy, arguing with you is simply a series of attempts to just correct your mischaracterizations, LOL! Really, your addiction to Debka disinformation and distortions is having some very deletrious effects, LOL! Well, Nadine, you really must break your addiction to Debka-disinformation tactics - it has reached alarming proportions, soon you won't be able to post a sentence without distortion, LOL! That is the horrible misfit when you keep talking about "colonial" - Israel is not anybody's colony. Err... no, my point is not that Israel is "somebody's colony, but rather that Israel is colonizing the Palestinian areas outside of its internationally recognized pre-67 borders, and is using all the classic techniques of ethnic cleansing and pogroms so well familiar to all concerned. Try and keep the Debka filter off, LOL! But Israel is not like the Arabs. You know how you tell the difference? When Israel kills Arab kids, people wince and the army appoints a commission of inquiry. When the Palestinians kill Jewish kids, they throw a party -- that was the whole point of the exercise. Less and less of a difference. That's the scary thing you and the right wing wackos in Israel are not paying attention to. There's been a marked deterioration of Israeli attitudes wrt. Arab casualties, and indeed Arab humanity. That has reached a new low, when even political discourse has deteriorated to a level of settlers calling Rabin a Nazi and killing him - how very Arab. And you are telling me it has not infected the Israeli soul? If I was Israeli, that would scare me to death - like the pod-people of the Invasion of the Body Snatchers, you are losing your souls and you don't even notice. Believe me, by the time one day you wake up and see that you live in a squalid horrible little country of talibanicks, it will be too late as all sensible people would have long left. When a nation loses its soul, it loses everything. Either you belong to Western culture, or you cross over to the absolutist fundamentalist, polarized world inhabited by the Muslim cultures these days. As someone who has many Jewish friends (yes, even some in Israel), that is the saddest thing I can imagine. I realize that to you this is a nebulous concern, something to dismiss and laugh off, something you don't even understand - which sadly bears out my point.