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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (54089)10/23/2002 3:32:02 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
France and Russia can whistle for their oil contracts.


I think, if push comes to shove, they will abstain. Lets see who "Knows when to hold them, and knows when to fold them."



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (54089)10/23/2002 3:45:38 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
"America is a Menace." That attitude is what is shaping the left's attitude toward action against Saddam.

The Anti-Liberal Anti-War Case

By Michael Kelly

Wednesday, October 23, 2002; Page A27

Since liberalism is an argument for a morally ordered world, liberal arguments are at bottom moral arguments, and there is a moral basis to the liberal argument against war with Iraq, as it has cohered in recent weeks. But, as it turns out, this argument perverts liberal and moral values.

In its essence, the liberal argument against war is that the immoral actor is America -- that America is, or imminently threatens to become, what the American president might call evil: a nationalist, imperialist, law-breaking pariah state at odds with its own traditions and values.

This bitter view has become the liberal establishment line, here and in Europe. A candid explication of the line is put forward in "The Threat of America," the lead article in the October issue of the London Review of Books. The article is by Anatol Lieven, a senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. A slightly more polite bashing may be found in "Bush and Iraq," the lead article in the Nov. 7 issue of the New York Review of Books, by the former New York Times columnist Anthony Lewis.

Lieven sums up his America: "What we see now is the tragedy of a great country, with noble impulses, successful institutions, magnificent historical achievements and immense energies, which has become a menace to itself and to mankind." He describes a government dominated, and a country illegitimately misruled, by "the radical nationalist Right . . . Republican nationalists," who are pursuing "the classic modern strategy of an endangered right-wing oligarchy, which is to divert mass discontent into nationalism," and who are also motivated by a scheme "to take the Jewish vote away from its traditional home in the Democratic Party."

Lieven holds out only one faint hope -- that the inherently nonimperialist American people will reject the machinations of the right-wing evildoers. Lewis, in his echoing article, quotes Lieven to this effect, and says, in an Eeyore-like tone, "We can only hope he is right."

What is striking about these arguments is what they refuse to even acknowledge: the liberal -- moral -- case for war. This case was made, in the best argument written to date on either side of the issue, in an article plugged in this space last week, but not plugged enough: Jonathan Chait's cover story in the Oct. 21 issue of the New Republic, "The Liberal Case for War."

Chait begins by noting the three core liberal principles in foreign policy: advancing humanitarian goals, observing international law and acting in concert with international institutions. In each instance, he persuasively argues, the Bush administration's policy meets the liberal test.

The most compelling argument, and the issue at the heart of the liberal perversion of liberalism, is in the area of humanitarianism. You can read all of Lieven and all of Lewis, and there is one thing you will not find: any consideration that an American war against Saddam Hussein's regime might be worth risking -- I mean according to liberal humanitarian values, not merely as a matter of selfish practical concerns -- because such a war could rescue a people from one of the most cruel dictatorships on Earth.

The depth of denial here is stunning. Lieven concedes that the militarily superior United States probably could topple Hussein's regime. But what then? He writes: "The 'democracy' which replaces it will presumably resemble that of Afghanistan -- a ramshackle coalition of ethnic groups and warlords, utterly dependent on U.S. military power and utterly subservient to U.S. (and Israeli) wishes."

Yes, I suppose what exists in Afghanistan is only (so far) a "democracy," not a democracy. And it sure is ethnic. And ramshackle. And, sure, post-Hussein Iraq would probably be the same.

But isn't Afghanistan after America's rescue a better place to live than it was before? I mean, again, from the liberal point of view: no more throwing homosexuals off buildings, whipping women, banning kites, that sort of thing. No more fascists.

Wouldn't Iraq as a "democracy" be a better place too, liberal values-wise? Wouldn't the freeing of the Iraqi people, like the freeing of the Afghan people, be a great moral victory?

In the end, it comes to this: The anti-warriors of the left would rather see Iraq continue as a slave state under Saddam Hussein than concede any legitimacy to the idea of an American (or at least a Republican) use of force. It's a price they are willing to pay. Because, you see, America is "a menace." Well, it is a point of view. But you might have a hard time convincing the average Iraqi torture victim that it is a liberal one, or moral one.

washingtonpost.com



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (54089)10/23/2002 4:28:37 AM
From: LindyBill  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
The "WSJ.com" agrees with me.

REVIEW & OUTLOOK
A French-Russian Veto?
Time to call the bluff of Paris and Moscow at the U.N.

Wednesday, October 23, 2002 12:01 a.m.

President Bush is a patient man, maybe too patient judging by his tolerance for the continuing shenanigans of France and Russia in the U.N. Security Council. The two nations formerly known as great powers are blocking any U.S.-British resolution tough enough to disarm Saddam Hussein.

We understand the uses of diplomacy, but enough is enough. It's been five weeks since Mr. Bush asked the U.N. to act, time is running out on the prime winter season for military action in Iraq, and sooner or later Mr. Bush has an obligation to end this pas de Chirac and call the French and Russian bluff. The U.S. should put a blunt, forceful declaration in front of the Security Council, and see if its members really want to veto it.

Such an ultimatum will at least force France and Russia to declare whose side they're really on. As it stands now they can have it both ways, pretending that they are friends of the U.S., while working behind the scenes to protect Saddam by strangling any weapons inspections in delay and diplomatic excuses.

Perhaps the French, with their usual hauteur, aren't taking Mr. Bush seriously. Only yesterday the President repeated his earlier promises that "if the United Nations can't make its mind up, if Saddam Hussein won't disarm, we will lead a coalition to disarm him for the sake of peace." He also said this week, realistically enough, that he doubts Saddam will agree to any serious inspections regime. But the French and Russians are behaving as if they still think Mr. Bush will change his mind, notwithstanding the recent overwhelming vote of support from the U.S. Congress.

What explains this curious double-game? Less high moral principle, we suspect, than old-fashioned cash. The Russian oil giant Lukoil has contracts with Iraq's current government, and Russia's government has $8 billion in Iraqi debt it wants repaid. The French communications company Alcatel and auto makers Renault and Peugeot have also done good business in Iraq in recent years. And French oil company TotalFinaElf has exclusive rights to develop the Bin Umar and Manjoon oil fields. Perhaps these companies fear that a post-Saddam Iraq government might not look kindly on those who supported its former oppressors.

The French, to be sure, also have a long history in Iraq and don't want to cede that area of influence to the upstart Americans. Under the mythic Charles de Gaulle, France withdrew from North Africa--abandoning, in his words, "the limited oil of the Sahara for the much more plentiful oil of Arabia"--and established close ties throughout the Middle East, especially with Saddam's Baath Party in Iraq. ("Iraq is really the key to your Arab policy," an influential adviser told de Gaulle.)

None other than current French President Jacques Chirac was instrumental in cementing that relationship under de Gaulle's successors, Georges Pompidou and Valery Giscard d'Estaing. France built the Osirak nuclear reactor, which Israel helped the world by destroying in 1981. And by 1989 an estimated half of French arms production went to Iraq. At least by the time of the Gulf War, then French President Francois Mitterrand understood that France's broader interest lay in being on the winning side and supported the U.S.-led coalition.

We'd guess that the same thing would happen today if Mr. Chirac is really forced to choose. The same goes for Russia, which has more to gain from a deepening friendship with America than it does from holding on to a doomed Iraqi dictator. With Mr. Bush intent on acting with or without the U.N., a Security Council veto would invite American enmity but still wouldn't save their business with Iraq. And far from reviving Gaullist or Soviet grandeur, a veto would only underscore French and Russian irrelevance in world affairs.

We'd add that a veto would also deal a major blow to the credibility of the U.N. Mr. Bush has challenged that body to live up to its principles by enforcing its own Iraq resolutions. If it fails despite Mr. Bush's pleas, and the U.S. then liberates Iraq with a coalition of its own, that body will look even more feckless than it already is.

Mr. Bush has already shown enormous deference to the U.N. But his first duty is to protect the lives of American soldiers, and that means letting them fight in winter, when they have the best chance of success. France and Russia have had enough time to decide who their friends are.