Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Pastimes : BS Bar & Grill - Open 24 Hours A Day -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Condor who wrote (2332)	11/5/2002 8:18:34 PM
From: Nadine Carroll	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6901

I believe I understand the House of Representatives and the Senate but where and how does the Congress fit in? Say what, C? The House and the Senate are the Congress. Someone ( Hawkmoon ) gave a URL that described the flow on how a bill became law To give the ultimate simplification: Any bill has to pass first the House, then the Senate, and then the President has to sign it, to become Federal law. If either house of Congress fails to pass it, or the President vetoes it and the veto is not overridden, then it doesn't. Does that answer your question? The House of Representatives, where every Congressman must be reelected every two years, was designed to be the most responsive institutuion to the people. But it's been so completely gerrymandered in favor of the incumbents that only about 15 seats out of 435 are actually up for grabs in any serious fashion in this election. The one-third of the Senate seats that are up for reelection (Senators serve for 6 years) are actually much more contested as nobody has yet figured out how to gerrymander a state.

To: Condor who wrote (2332)	11/5/2002 8:41:33 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6901

Hi Condor; It's a tradition of the English speaking peoples to have government forms that are so complicated that they provide a form of entertainment as well as governance. The House (435 members) and Senate (100 members) together make up the two chambers that are "Congress". The Senate's "senators" individually represent states (2 each state times 50 states = 100 senators). The House's 435 members each represent an individual "house district". House districts are always contained in a particular state. That is, they don't cross state boundaries. Each house member represents roughly an equal share of the population. The Senate gives more power (per capita) to small states. The House is more equal, but due to rounding, some states are slightly better represented than others. It isn't important to know exactly how laws are passed. Briefly, Congress makes them up based on majority rules in both chambers, and the President then signs them or vetoes them. If he vetoes, Congress can "override" his veto if the supporters have enough votes in each chamber (2/3 if I recall correctly). The Democrats are the leftist party and the Republicans are the rightist. US elections are almost always "winner take all" (there are exceptions in individual states). This fact suppresses the viability of splinter 3rd parties. For this reason, the Democrats and Republicans espouse policies that are not significantly different, as compared to, for example, the differences in policies espoused by the Communists and Fascists splinter parties in a typical parliamentarian election. Instead of forming their own parties (though they sometimes do this), American nut cases instead choose to vote Republican or Democrat depending on which type of nut case they are. There has been support for a 3rd party off and on over the years, and there was a time before the Republican party existed (that is, it was once a 3rd party). Support for 3rd parties is usually from nut cases that are unable to make themselves vote for either of the two major parties. Why they color the Democrats "blue" and the republicans "red" is impossible to guess. During the American Civil War, it was traditional for the Republicans (i.e. Northern states) to wear blue, while the Democrats (i.e. Slave states) wore gray. The Republican party is traditionally the party of the brave men in the military, intelligent businessmen, traditional farm interests, and the dangerously religious. The Democratic party is traditionally the party of hard working laborers, diverse ethnic minorities, lazy people, and criminals. There are interesting exceptions to these generalizations. For example, dangerously religious Jews used to vote Democratic. And some ethnic minorities (particularly Cuban) vote Republican. Since the Republican party was responsible for the freeing of the slaves, they once received nearly 100% of the black vote. Around 1932 the blacks switched to Democrat. Maybe that would be good point to guess that marks the moment when the direct effects of slavery in the US had declined to 1/2 its original effect. [Edit: The senators serve staggered terms in order to give the Senate continuity between elections.] -- Carl P.S. I usually vote Republican, but this election I'm pissed at Bush so I'm instead abstaining. A few weeks ago I was so pissed that I was talking about voting Democratic (shudder).

To: Condor who wrote (2332)	11/5/2002 9:00:27 PM
From: FaultLine	Respond to of 6901

I'm Just a Bill apocalypse.org From Schoolhouse Rock }} {Woof! You sure gotta climb a lotta steps to get to this Capitol Building here in Washington! But I wonder who that sad little scrap of paper is?} I'm just a bill, Yes, I'm only a bill, And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill. Well, it's a long, long journey To the capital city, It's a long, long wait While I'm sitting in committee, But I know I'll be a law someday... At least I hope and pray that I will, But today I'm still just a bill. }} {Gee, bill, you certainly have a lot of patience and courage!} {Well I got this far. When I started, I wasn't even a bill - I was just an idea. Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed, so they called their local congressman and he "You're right, there ought to be a law." Then he sat down and wrote me out and introduced me to Congress, and I became a bill. And I'll remain a bill until they decide to make me a law.} I'm just a bill, Yes I'm only a bill, And I got as far as Capitol Hill. Well now I'm stuck in committee And I sit here and wait While a few key congressmen Discuss and debate Whether they should Let me be a law... Oh how I hope and pray that they will, But today I am still just a bill. }} {Listen to those congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and }} debate about you?} {Yes. I'm one of the lucky ones. Most bills never even get this far. I hope they decide to report on me favourably, otherwise I may die.} }} {"Die?"} {Yeah: die in committee. Oooh! But it looks like I'm gonna live. Now I go to the House of Representatives and they vote on me.} }} {If they vote "yes", what happens?} {Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts all over again.} }} {Oh no!} {Oh yes!} I'm just a bill, Yes I'm only a bill, And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill, Well then I'm off to the White House Where I'll wait in a line With a lot of other bills For the President to sign. And if he signs me then I'll be a law... Oh, how I hope and pray that he will, But today I am still just a bill. }} {You mean even if the whole Congress says you should be a law, the }} President can still say no?} {Yes, that's called a "veto". If the President vetoes me, I have to go back to Congress, and they vote on me again, and by that time it's...} }} {By that time, it's very unlikely that you'll become a law! It's }} not easy to become a law, is it?} No! But how I hope and I pray that I will, But today I am still just a bill! }} {He signed you, bill! Now you're a law!} {Oh yes!}

To: Condor who wrote (2332)	11/5/2002 9:12:29 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6901

Hi Condor - you already got some good answers but I will weigh in anyway. I just started reading Founding Brothers by Joseph J. Ellis, which has now achieved permanent rotation on my bedside stack, along with John Adams by David McCulloch, The Cousin's War by Kevin Phillips, and the Federalist Papers, as I chew my way slowly through the Foundation. People in other countries sometimes are puzzled, or amused, at how much we Americans still care about the Founding Fathers, but we live in a democratic republic which has lasted longer than any other in history, and the ideals under which this country was founded matter a great deal to us, still. As you've been told, Congress consists of two bodies ("bicameral" aka two chambers) the House of Representatives and the Senate. Historically, this was the Great Compromise reached when the Constitutional Convention met in Philadephia in 1790, 212 years ago. The House of Representatives is based on the population of each state. It is the house of the people. A large state, like New York, Virginia, or California, has more votes in the House of Representatives than a small state, and thus more power. There are two Senators for each state. It is the house of what passes for the aristocracy. A tiny state, like Rhode Island, has as many Senatorial votes as a large state, and thus has equal power. Either chamber, House or Senate, can originate bills, but the Constitution provides that bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House. As a practical matter, both chambers work together on bills. Identical language can be used for a House bill and a Senate bill, or they may be different. When the House and the Senate pass bills with different language, they go to a committee called a "conference committee" to work out the language. Everybody involved in the passage of a law keeps track of what everybody else is doing. They are constantly involved in the process of what I call "yadda-yadda." The yadda-yadda process involves arm-twisting, horse-trading, and putting one's finger in the air to determine the direction the wind is blowing. At the end of the day, after the Senate and the House come up with a version of a bill that they both like, the proof of the pudding is the President. He can sign the bill, he can veto the bill, or he can put it in his pocket and not act on it ("pocket veto"). If the President signs it, it's law. If the President vetoes it, the day is not over. It takes a simple majority of both houses to enact a bill. But if the President vetoes it, then it takes a super majority (two thirds) to enact it over his veto. If the Congress (both houses) passes the law again with a super majority, then it overrides the veto, and the bill is law. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Another reason the makeup of Congress matters - a lot - is the makeup of committees. Whichever party controls a chamber of Congress gets to appoint the chairman of the committees, and the chairman of the committees decides whether the entire chamber will get to vote on a bill within the purview of that committee. Even if the chamber of Congress would vote yes, it doesn't matter if the issue won't come out of committee because the chairman of the committee won't allow it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ So -- which party controls both chambers of Congress matters an awful lot. If the Republicans were to control the House of Representatives, and the Senate, while a Republican was President, this would be unprecedented in my lifetime. There have been numerous occasions when the Democrats had control of Congress and the Presidency, e.g., under Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Clinton, but not Republicans.