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To: Neocon who wrote (3299)	11/25/2002 10:39:04 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6901

It's hard for me to tell whether Michael Moore knows that he is being intellectually dishonest but does it anyway, for effect or because it suits his purposes, or whether he just can't think clearly enough to realize he's doing it. At any rate, he does it often enough that it's a predictable character flaw. One of the things I thought was very dishonest about Bowling for Columbine was the way that he handled the issue of race. He definitely suggested that Americans are racist for thinking that blacks commit a disproportionate number of violent crimes -- which may well be true, but doesn't disprove the fact that blacks DO commit a disproportionate number of violent crimes -- as do Hispanics. My own guess as to why blacks and Hispanics have such a high murder rate in the US has to do with expectations. Moving from New Orleans, a place of low expectations, to Fairfax, a place of high expectations, was an eye opener. Of course, the population of Fairfax is whiter, richer, and better educated, so how do I know that expectations make a difference? When Rudy Giulani became mayor of New York, he proved that high expectations can make a big difference - the so-called "broken windows" theory. I think people have a tendency to get away with as much as they can. In places where they are allowed a lot of latitude, they will misbehave far worse than in places where bad behavior isn't tolerated. I have only been to Canada once, drove from VA to Halifax to watch an eclipse, spent time in both New Brunswick and Nova Scotia. The social norms seem to tend more towards order, e.g., not much trash in the streets, drivers stop when they see pedestrians in the crosswalk, not much in the way of rowdiness around the port bars in Halifax. Compare and contrast with, say, the South Bronx or Southeast DC.

To: Neocon who wrote (3299)	11/25/2002 10:44:28 AM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 6901

Our high murder rate is an ethnic problem, which the media will not discuss. You named the numbers for our over all population. >>>>about 15% of our population is black, about 12% is Hispanic<<<<<<<< Then look at our murder rate in Los Angeles this year. Consider: As of July 31 of this year there had been 299 murders in the city of Los Angeles. Of the victims, 141 (47 percent) were Hispanic and 134 (45 percent) were black, reflecting a pattern that has remained steady for the last few years. Detectives had identified 158 suspects in these crimes, of whom 69 (44 percent) were Hispanic and 64 (40 percent) were black. There were eight whites (5 percent) identified, as well as 17 (11 percent) of what LAPD record keepers label as "others," primarily Asians and Middle Easterners.<<<<(Jack Dunphy article, NRO. As long as this huge disparity is to "PC" to even be discussed, we have little chance of changing it.

To: Neocon who wrote (3299)	11/27/2002 3:27:21 AM
From: D. Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6901

To me, the classic Michael Moore anecdote is from his short- lived television show. He did a segment with Yaphet Kotto, testing the willingness of New York cabdrivers to pick up blacks heading uptown, presumably to Harlem. He belabored the point that the majority of cabbies were more willing to pick up well- dressed white men. What he didn't mention was that the majority was narrow (if memory serves, about 51% to 49%, and therefore within the margin of error), and that black cabbies were equally biased, if bias existed. These things came out later. Such observations also don't take self-interest into account. Cabbies live on tips. Any low wage tip worker will be biased in favor of those that appear affluent - and potentially a big tipper. I realize that the film revolved around outbreaks like Columbine, but clearly these are not even typical actions of NRA types, but the acts of people with sociopathic tendencies. Affluent Denver... Pretty Blue Zone. You may as well accuse the Boulder liberals of being militia members. Derek