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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: michael97123 who wrote (66881)	12/4/2002 10:41:27 AM
From: Fred Levine	Read Replies (5) \| Respond to of 70976

Mike-- I think that Zonder has trivialized 9/11. I cannot think of any comparable catastrophic attack on innocents. It was of major magnitude, and I share your anger and outrage. Given that, her arguments are intelligent, altho, obviously, she and I differ. I have an obsession, however, that all black and white arguments are indefensible. I have written articles and a book about that in psychology-- where I attack psychiatric diagnostic categories. But think-- where is the difference between such obvious categories as life and death. There is huge dispute about when life begins and when it ends. When I was in PS 47 (elementary school), we learned that bacteria were plants. Now they are animals. If there is dispute about those categories, be aware that all categories are human constructions which are an attempt to give order to a confusing world. Can we even comprehend the possibility that there may be infinite universes? In fact, how can we comprehend the concept of infinity itself? It is beyond our limitations. In the political arena, I am in complete agreement with Zonder that it is naive to divide the world into good guys and bad guys. That includes Bush and Gore. However, and I've stated this several times before, that I think it is absolutely evil to gratuitously cause harm. My interpretation of 9/11 is that it is evil and must be eliminated. I think it is despicable that people give political or economic rationales to the slaughter of innocents. More than that. You have strong opinions and you are required to either defend them or to abandon them--- not the thread because people disagree with you. fred

To: michael97123 who wrote (66881)	12/6/2002 4:59:24 AM
From: zonder	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Hi Mike, I was trying to be civilized yesterday with Zonder You've done well :) I am reading the messages now and will write back soon. basic belief that terror must be destroyed first and then the causes of that terror understood. Then riddle me this: How can you hope to defeat a phenomenon the causes of which you do not know? Of course you can give the strongest medicine to any disease and hope it cures. What if it does not? What if the drugs actually help strengthen the virus? Can you take that risk? This is a major difference between the thought systems of the West and the East. In North American thought, everything is black and white, might makes right, and you can actually say something must be destroyed before its causes are understood. In Eastern thought (not just ME, think Japanese, for example...) black and white only exists in children's books, victory by sheer force is not glorious, and understanding your enemy is KEY to defeating him. I see you have studied political science. Have you read "The Art of War"? This last point is hammered throughout the book. amazon.com