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To: AC Flyer who wrote (27495)	1/15/2003 11:16:54 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Yea, Gould talked a lot about evolutionary theories limitations. I believe he was also a marijuana smoker which you may find distasteful :) As for Jaynes, he was a Princeton Psychologist [PHD]... he's simply using 'gods' as a metaphore.. since people were'nt "thinking" or talking to themselves in their head like we do. So where did the thoughts they did have [if you would call them that.... instinct?] come from? I think he's simply speculating that they thought they were gods... DAK

To: AC Flyer who wrote (27495)	1/16/2003 4:54:36 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

<>>"When Julian Jaynes...speculates that until late in the second millennium B.C. men had no consciousness but were automatically obeying the voices of gods....the revolutionary idea that human consciousness did not begin far back in animal evolution but is a learned process brought into being out of an earlier hallucinatory mentality by cataclysm and catastrophe only 3000 years ago and still developing"<<> ACF, I've got some sympathy with the idea. I've been aware for a long time that much of what I do is automatic, driven by subconscious stuff. My thinking and conscious department is like a thinly self-determining verbal construct, subject to the more powerful driving forces of subterranean emotion which also power lions, mice, wolves and chimps. Sometimes my conscious self observes me and thinks "Was that really you doing that Mq?" "Who's in charge around here anyway?" Chimps are like humans without the thinking. You can watch them thinking - there is a short and direct connection between their surroundings and their actions. They aren't into the cogito ergo sum stuff. Nor the finer meaning of life - tell them the answer to life, the universe and everything is 42 and they wouldn't have a clue what's going on. Come to think of it, I'm somewhat bewildered too. Mqurice