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Pastimes : The Boxing Ring Revived -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (3859)	1/18/2003 2:33:02 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7720

Does it matter what kind of stick or wire it is? I don't know about "coat hangers." I always heard "rusty coat hangers" and I think that was hyperbole. Coat hangers don't rust all that often and there is always an adequate supply of the non-rusty version. My understanding has always been that knitting needles were the preferred tool. I imagine that, were abortion outlawed, women wouldn't be as likely to go to the guys in the "back-alley" with the "rusty coat hangers." Women are much more sophisticated now than they once were, more knowledgeable about anatomy, and more assertive. I'd bet that most would do the deed themselves or with a trusted friend or local "midwife," using the emergency room as a backup in case of hemorrhage, assuming that she wouldn't be prosecuted for seeking medical treatment after the fact, that is.

To: Solon who wrote (3859)	1/18/2003 4:39:59 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 7720

It is common knowledge. Many things that aren't true are common knowledge. That is perhaps the least impressive argument you could make. I worked in a medical center for several years, and never either saw or heard of a woman who had tried to abort herself with a stick or coat hanger or anything else like that. Nor read of anything in the medical literature. How might a uterus get perforated? Well, a quick search shows a number of ways. For example: "My daughter, who had an IUD implanted July 19, 1996, had no followup examination until July 17, 1997. It was discovered that her uterus had been perforated, and the IUD was missing" Here's one where the uterus was perforated during a botched operation. socialaw.com Or it can happen when a professional botches an abortion. legalactionforwomen.org gargaro.com forever.freeshell.org roevwade.org So much for the concept that keeping abortion legal will make it safe. If none of these women had had abortions, none of them would have had perforated uteruses. Meanwhile, I have not found a single instance in which a woman perforated her own uterus. Even the site you provided made no such claim, nor did it back up its claim that thousands of women died from illegal abortions. (But it does claim that abortions have been carried out for thousands of years. But the coat hanger was only invented during the last century. So much for THAT argument.) But I realize that you are in denial mode. So I'll quit confusing you with the facts. Some day maybe you'll face reality. Or maybe not.

To: Solon who wrote (3859)	1/18/2003 4:41:40 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 7720

P.S. this report claims that "poking through the uterus is a standard complication" of legal abortions. roevwade.org