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To: Poet who wrote (4529)1/23/2003 5:21:38 PM
From: TimF  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 7689
 
the racial difference is more troublesome though.

Why?

It wasn't like the question was fabricated to make it harder for non-whites. Also the question is not a trick question or even a very difficult one.

Some races score lower or higher on the test in general and by random chance there will be some questions that particular groups are weak on. I don't see any reason to be troubled by the question. I am more troubled by its removal.

Tim



To: Poet who wrote (4529)1/23/2003 6:09:40 PM
From: Original Mad Dog  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 7689
 
the racial difference is more troublesome though.

Troublesome or troubling?

I think when there is a racial difference in the answer to a question, you have to think long and hard about why there is such a difference. There is absolutely nothing in that question that even hints at cultural bias. It just asks people to answer a basic story problem using basic arithmetic. I showed the question to people in my office today, and several of them said that it should not be on the SAT because it was too easy. None thought it was the least bit biased, because it's not.

The goal of the test is to accurately measure certain levels of academic aptitude and preparedness/achievement levels, as a way of determining which college experience might be the appropriate level of difficulty for a student (and for the school and the other students). I don't think the goal of the test is or should be that races and genders score the same regardless of what the topics are.

I am not troubled that the test shows a disparity. I am troubled that our educational and social/family system produces the disparity. I am troubled that girls drop out of math at higher rates than boys, that minority and less affluent people don't on average embrace education in these topics as a way of bettering their lives. Changing those things might actually produce more individuals from those "groups" (there already are many) who will get that question right in the future. Attacking the disparity by changing the content of the test is absolutely the wrong approach IMO. Why doesn't somebody study people of ecomomic backgrounds with a low success rate on questions like that, compare the people who got the questions right with those that got them wrong, and try to learn some lessons and put them into practice? Maybe because the mindset that the test must be wrong is more comfortable than thinking that the people who missed the question did something wrong.

And I find using race as the measurement tool to be insulting. We are all members of the human race (well, except me <g>); the coming generation contains a whole lot of kids that are half this or half that, and their kids will be a quarter this, that or the other thing. A bunch of white students probably missed the question too, and some Asians, and some Native Americans, and some descendants of Portuguese fisherman too. If they did, somebody ought to be equally concerned about that.

The whole notion of group/race think has a disturbing tendency to allow people to avoid the real problem, which in the area of testing, ought to be that some kids don't know answers they really ought to know.

And I doubt you would have gotten it wrong, joking aside.



To: Poet who wrote (4529)1/23/2003 8:11:19 PM
From: Lazarus_Long  Respond to of 7689
 
It's a truism that males score higher on math than females.
Truism? Females are supposed;ly better academically until somewhere in high school I believe. The best guess I'd make is that too many still buy the marriage-and-live-happily-ever-after-staying-at-home myth and don't prepare themselves for the competitive rough-and-tumble world that is coming. Boys simply assume that will be their fate and knuckle down and get ready. A lot, anyway.

timss.bc.edu
High-achieving amth students by gender:
4th grade: 51% male, 49% female
8th grade: 55% male, 45% female
12th grade: same