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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (80175)	3/7/2003 1:54:22 PM
From: carranza2	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Jacob, I was talking specifically about the PR war. I think that there will be a positive synergistic effect on the PR front if OBL is captured at about the same time Bush pulls the trigger on Saddam. Certainly in the US and perhaps in the UK, too. Capturing OBL would be a great impetus to the war-marketing effort, as your cohort might say. Support from other countries would be nice, and Bush has done a lot to try to get it, but it's not essential. The Hawks have no chance of success, if they don't begin to inject a little Realism into their thinking process. Exactly what kind of success are you talking about? I'm hard put to decipher whether you mean military, political, etc., success. I'm not being obtuse. Moreover, I apologize for asking what may seem like a stupid question. Unfortunately I have great difficulty with open-ended terms and open-ended discussions.

To: Jacob Snyder who wrote (80175)	3/7/2003 2:15:11 PM
From: paul_philp	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Over and over, the Hawks made assumptions about the world, which turned out to be false. The Hawks read the world quite accurately when they advocated against going to the UN. It is the doves who look to have misread the world. The Hawks messed up with Turkey but seemed to have had a good handle on the rest of the world. I think you are paying too much attention to public posturing and not enough attention to actions. Most of the Gulf is screaming about the terrible US plan while providing much of the support the Hawks requested. As for the UNSC, the Hawks are being Realists. The UNSC has no independent self-interest, it is simply a negotiating table with no moral authority. Why put the security interests of the United States in the hands of such a body? Very nice condemenation of the UNSC by the President of Rwanda this morning. "While the UNSC decided to take a little more time discussing out situation a million Rwandans were brutally slaughtered." I think the so-called Realists live in fantasy world. It is interesting that in this very public diplomatic dispute you assume that one side is being straight-forward with their protestations while the other side is only posturing. So far we have only rhetoric not action to judge them. We shall only know the truth when they vote. As for Canada, they will be saluting the US flag the moment it is asked. Until then, we just want to be seen as not under the thumb. We would hate for the world to think of us as weak and foolish like Britain. Paul