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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (84115)	3/20/2003 9:38:40 AM
From: Condor	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

If the US beats up on France (I don't think they will) then the US further undermines its wobbly support going forward. Amoungst other lesser countries, you should not forget that Russia and China are aligned with France. I think the US starts bitch slapping at its own peril but as JohnM would say BWTFDIK. You and I will have to wait and see if either of us got it right or the final verdict falls somewhere in between which is a probability.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (84115)	3/20/2003 10:03:56 AM
From: JohnM	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Caldwell's point (do read him carefully) is that America is going to take measures against France, not out of pique, but out of hard headed political calculations - that whatever calculus enabled the French to believe they could set themselves up to thwart and obstruct actions that we believed were essential for our national security without paying any price - well, that calculus has got to go. The surest way to overturn it is to make some example of the French pour encourager les autres. This is doubly true as it is a neocon article of faith that it is wise in foreign policy to reward your allies and punish your enemies as it encourages more allies in the long run. The neocons believe that the US has spent twenty years bullying our allies and appeasing our enemies, and that we are now paying the price of that mistaken policy. Terrible, just terrible, foreign policy advice. The French and the Germans are our allies with which we have a serious policy disagreement but with which we have profound agreements on a host of other issues. To reify the Iraq disagreements into basic premises of foreign policy is only to make a bad moment much worse. I agree that this is neocon policy. But it's yet one more reason to find that policy not only wrong but objectionable.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (84115)	3/20/2003 10:18:53 AM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

I would personally prefer that the US not waste valuable time trying to diplomatically stick it to France over this latest Iraq thing. Not that they don't deserve to have their tail tweaked for giving us a hard time over this, but simply because it won't accomplish anything useful. The truth will out on any under the table arms deals France has had with Saddam (and others), regardless, and in any event in a few years it'll be something else in the news and most of the public won't be interested. This is doubly true if things in the Iraq go well as I hope they will. There'll be punishment enough if France misses out on some juicy contracts rebuilding Iraq (but in the end France and Europe will benefit economically more by a less totalitarian Iraq with sanctions lifted than by one with Saddam still at the helm buying a few arms on the side....)