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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Ilaine who wrote (91516)	4/9/2003 11:59:17 AM
From: ThirdEye	Respond to of 281500

A time for jubilation to be sure, but also a time for reflection. American blood on Iraqi soil. Some paid with their lives for this moment.

To: Ilaine who wrote (91516)	4/9/2003 3:52:09 PM
From: LindyBill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Who around here is going to be big enough to say they were wrong, and they are glad to admit it? None will admit it, CB. Bilow, et al, will be back crowing at the first negative headline. And we will get "Bush the Moron" as the interm Gov takes over. So expect to hear from the "Ankle Biters" in the future.

To: Ilaine who wrote (91516)	4/9/2003 8:19:34 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Who around here is going to be big enough to say they were wrong, and they are glad to admit it ? I was initially very pessimistic and sick at heart over the outpouring of anti-American sentiment I saw on the European francophone media, I honestly didn't know what we'd gotten ourselves into. At the same time, I've said several times that I believed the regime itself was "the mouse that roared", and was at least right on that. (North Korea is another one of those.) It was the specter of terrorist suicide attacks and similar operations against our troops that truly worried me, and I was surely not alone. I'll have to start looking at TV5 and listening to RFI again, I'd stopped as it had gotten unbearable for a while. I really mean it when I hope those backstabbers in the French government don't make a thin centime on any reconstruction of Iraq at this point. As for the belligerent armchair "military expert" that flamed this group for a solid year --- Even a fool can appear wise if he holds his tongue.

To: Ilaine who wrote (91516)	4/9/2003 10:30:34 PM
From: Jacob Snyder	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

<Who around here is going to be big enough to say they were wrong, and they are glad to admit it?> I'll admit to being surprised at how quickly the Regime Change has been done. And glad that our dead are less than 100, and that the mass civilian casualties inevitable with prolonged urban fighting, will be avoided. I said before the war started, that the Regime Change would go as planned, and the Nation Building wouldn't.

To: Ilaine who wrote (91516)	4/10/2003 4:20:15 AM
From: KLP	Respond to of 281500

3:37 AM EST...The Fighting Is Not Over: Fierce Battle Is Waged Over Palace Outside Baghdad By Hamza Hendawi Associated Press Writer Apr 10, 2003 BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - U.S. Marines seized a palace north of the capital early Thursday in a fierce, three-hour battle which demonstrated all too clearly that the fighting is far from over in Iraq. One Marine was killed and as many as 20 were wounded. In and around the city, short exchanges of gunfire and explosions could be heard during the night and through the day, nearly 24 hours after the people of Baghdad danced in the streets and went on a looting rampage over the downfall of Saddam Hussein. The looting continued. Thousands of youths moved into the city center from the poor outlying districts with wheelbarrows and pushcarts, intent of getting their share of the plunder. Looters hit stores and government installations and carried off desks, air conditioners, sofas and carpets. U.S. forces made no effort to stop the looting. American troops occupied the Oil Ministry. The nine-story Ministry of Transport building was gutted by fire, as was the Iraqi Olympic headquarters, while the Ministry of Education was partially burned. In the fighting for control of the palace, the Marines called in airstrikes on the Iraqi fighters and opened fire with machine guns. A force made up of an undetermined number of Iraqi fighters hit some American vehicles with rocket-propelled grenades, killing one Marine. The palace, on a 13-acre site, was heavily damaged. Medical evacuation helicopters landed in the front yard of the palace Thursday. "It's absolute chaos around here, but it actually is going pretty well," said Marine Capt. Shawn Basco, a forward air controller. "We're getting our people out of here and we're getting them to safety immediately, within about three minutes of the time they get injured." U.S. troops manned checkpoints around the city, and the Marines discovered an enormous cache of weapons that included 250 to 300 82mm mortar systems, enough for more than 30 battalions. They also found as many as 300 rocket-propelled grenade systems, hundreds of machine guns, million of rounds of ammunition, and two working T-72 tanks, as well as several others that were being repaired. Around the city, most motorists were flying white flags. Some public buses were even running. On Wednesday, in a scene that called to mind the fall of the Soviet Union in 1991, the Marines used a winch to pull down a 40-foot bronze statue of Saddam Hussein and break it in half. Iraqis attacked the statue with sledgehammers and sticks, danced on its fallen chest and face, and threw garbage on it. Others dragged the torn-off head through the streets, while children beat it with shoes and slippers - a grave insult in the Arab world. Iraqis and Marines hugged, high-fived or shook hands. Some of the Marines held their rifles aloft in a victorious pose. "Now my son can have a chance in life," said Bushra Abed, pointing to her 2-year-old son, Ibrahim. On Wednesday, there was scattered sniper fire directed at U.S. troops, and Marines traded small arms fire with forces in a building near the Interior Ministry. There was also heavy fighting around Baghdad University. In one neighborhood, hundreds of Iraqis who had been cheering American troops came under heavy automatic weapons fire at sunset, apparently from Iraqi fighters. At least six people were killed in a car riddled by bullets. At a former Republican Guard installation in the city, now a base for Marines, eight prisoners knelt in the dirt, hands behind them and hoods on their heads. Soldiers said they were Islamic militants from France, Algeria, Egypt and Jordan who had come to Iraq to kill Americans. AP-ES-04-10-03 0337EDT This story can be found at: ap.tbo.com