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Politics : Stop the War! -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (12094)	4/11/2003 7:03:41 AM
From: Machaon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 21614

<< Then Israel is ultimately doomed. Israel only friend is the US. Inevitably, at some point the US will decline. ANd that's the end of Israel. >> If Israel is made to pull back to indefensible borders, and the US power declines, as you suggest it will, Israel would certainly be doomed. Throughout history, Jews have found out that when their lives and destiny is in the hands of others, Jews have suffered greatly. To force Israel to have indefensible borders in an unstable world, where the threat of international terrorism is growing, is a pathway to Israel's destruction. What happens if Israel pulls back to dangerous borders, and if America gets a Democrat administration which decides that coalition backing of Israel is not in America's best interest, or if countries in that coalition decides that Israel should not be defended against terrorism? You want to create a permanent and dangerous situation for Israel that would be subject to the political whims of other countries. America would never accept that type of unstable, dangerous situation for itself. << You harbor terrorists? You deal with the 82nd and 101st Airborne. >> It took an enormous effort to try and get the world to go along with removing one of the worst and repressive regimes in Iraq, and still, most of the world was against getting rid of Saddam. What if we find out the China, or Russia, or France, or Saudi Arabia is funding, harboring, training and supporting terrorist movements against the newly, indefensible borders of Israel? Do you think that we would start war against a country like Russia? << If a gov't won't police its territory, an external force comes in, overthrows it, and does the job for it. >> These are noble dreams, but that is all it is. We can't even get the Arafat government to change, and it has been under seige for quite a while. You really think that we can effect changes to any other government? What would happen when the world rose up against coalition regime change? The coalition would back down, and Israel would be at the mercy of the brutal Arab dictatorships now in power. Let's first see how well we do with regime change in Iraq. Let's prove to the world that we can effect regime change, and build a peaceful, free democracy in Iraq.

To: Lazarus_Long who wrote (12094)	4/11/2003 8:09:52 AM
From: AK2004	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 21614

LL re: Israel shouldn't agree to this, and will never agree to this. Jerusalem is Israel's most important city. Then Israel is ultimately doomed. Israel only friend is the US. Inevitably, at some point the US will decline. ANd that's the end of Israel. And the US may decide before that that constant hassle with Arabs are not worth the price it pays. The Jewish Lobby in this country has a lot of influence, but it doesn't have anything like a majority of votes. some history: when un voted for israel the 1st country that voted for israel was not USA but USSR. USSR wanted a friendship of Israel and not arabs but israel chose to support US interest in the region. It is not one sided relationship between Israel and USA as you paint it. It is cooperation between friendly countries but do not forget that israel is a sovereign country and will act as such. In return for US' help Israel provides stability in the region. Recall that when syria wanted to take over Jordan, even though at that time Jordan was main base of all operations against israel, Israel's airforce bailed Jordan out. Israel also bombed iraqis nuclear reactor and prevented iraq from developing nuclear weapons. And more recently, during gulf war 2, israel was watching US back against iran. and finally what would it say about US if we abandon our friends in a time of need