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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101224)	6/12/2003 1:18:37 AM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

>> The world demands that the Jews be the only real Christians among nations.<< I have no idea what you mean by "Christian" but I think you don't understand it very well. Christ didn't care a flip about property. He never picked any place on earth to say "this is mine and I'll defend it to the death, yours and mine." >>The world also conveniently forgets what induced the Jews to move in in the first place; in fact if they can point fingers at Israeli guilt now, they seem to feel it absolves them of their responsibility for this state of affairs. << And, that would be . . . . what, exactly? What was it that moved the Jews to move to Israel in the first place? Couldn't have been the Holocaust, that happened almost 100 years after Zionism got a good start. How is "the world" responsible for "this state of affairs"? In the US, Jews live very well.

To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (101224)	6/13/2003 9:55:42 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

Yeah, I know that the Jews catch more flack for moving in while paying for their land and hiring the locals than any other country gets for outright conquest with attendant slaughter because "violence was implicit". Given our previous discussions, you have one hell of a lot of gall, throwing this crap back in my direction. I would think you'd be at least willing to concede that things were a little bit more complicated than that. As you know very well, because we've gone over it ad nauseam, the issue was not just that Jews were moving in, the issue was that they were moving in with the openly declared intention of declaring sovereignty over the area on terms that were absolutely unacceptable to the existing population. This may have been understandable, given conditions at the time, but it is absolutely ridiculous to pretend that this act did not have consequences, or to expect that the non-Jews already living in the area should have sat blithely by while newcomers turned their home into a state "as Jewish as England is English" - a state in which they could not possibly be equal participants. The world also conveniently forgets what induced the Jews to move in in the first place; in fact if they can point fingers at Israeli guilt now, they seem to feel it absolves them of their responsibility for this state of affairs. Absolute bollocks. If anything, the opposite is true: the Israelis feel that if they keep reminding the rest of the world of the suffering their ancestors went through, it will absolve them of responsibility for the consequences of their actions. It actually worked pretty well, for a long time.