Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Bilow who wrote (112210)	8/21/2003 12:14:19 AM
From: Sig	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

<<We eventually pulled out of 'Nam, and we will pull out of Iraq too. But faster, since the public was not united even going in.>>> Good strategy: Its the sixth inning, we are ahead 8 to 2, the opposing team has used all its regular pitchers and is beginning to use inexperienced rookies. Lets concede the game and leave on the next bus Sig

To: Bilow who wrote (112210)	8/21/2003 4:27:21 AM
From: GUSTAVE JAEGER	Respond to of 281500

Re: This is failing miserably. And it's not like it hasn't been tried before. The French tried it in Algeria. They failed. The Israelis tried it in Palestine. They failed too. The Germans tried it in East Germany... they failed. The Judeo-Protestant fixers tried it in Russia... they failed. Yankees tried it in Argentina... they failed.

To: Bilow who wrote (112210)	8/21/2003 4:58:01 AM
From: greenspirit	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

And 1% of them are subject to the Jihad call, which is about, 20,000 per year. Playing the game, changes the game. This news came a few days ago... Saudi clerics condemn terrorism in new fatwa (Updated at 0940 PST) RIYADH: As Saudi Arabia mounts a new crackdown on militants the kingdom's leading clerics issued a decree (fatwa) on Saturday condemning terrorism, a foreign news agency reported on Sunday. In a religious ruling that confronts head-on the doctrine of jihad, or holy struggle, adopted by the likes of Saudi-born Osama bin Laden, a council of Islamic scholars said killing and bombing had nothing to do with furthering God's will. It is necessary under sharia law to severely punish those carrying out acts of sabotage and depravity, like bombings and murder and destruction of property. These are dangerous crimes and an aggression against human life and wealth, the council said in a statement carried on the official Saudi Press Agency. And those who claim sabotage, bombings and murder are jihad, they are ignorant and misguided because these acts have nothing to do with jihad for the sake of God, said the council, headed by the kingdom's highest religious authority, Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul-Aziz al-Sheikh.

To: Bilow who wrote (112210)	8/21/2003 2:20:29 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

This is failing miserably. And it's not like it hasn't been tried before. The French tried it in Algeria. They failed. The Israelis tried it in Palestine. They failed too. I can only imagine what you would have been saying after Kasserine Pass.. "This ain't working.. Rommel trounced on our forces.. We should never have invaded North Africa and deposed the legitimate government of Vichy France... We should just pull our forces back home, or send them to the Pacific because it's the Japanese who attacked us, not the Germans.. Fortify our beaches and plant landmines around our coasts"... Yep... I can see you saying just that Carl... Because it's NO DIFFERENT than what you're saying now... Anytime things are going "hunky-dory", then it ain't worth it... It doesn't matter that the militants are coming after us where we live.. It doesn't matter that Islamic fundamentalism is the nastiest thing we've seen since the "divine wind" of Kamikazes Japan launched at our forces... And it doesn't matter that the Islamic fundamentalism is growing, not retreating in one of the most economically strategic places on earth... Nope.. just cut and run... Head for the hills.. Throw in the towel and leave millions of muslims to fend for themselves and be subjugated to the will of fanatical clerics who would enlist their children into a suicidal Jihad... All to advance the power and prestige of these theocrats... Carl... Islamic Fundamentalism is a socio-economic response to lack of economic and social opportunity. When people in that region don't have jobs, and cannot find employment overseas, they head to their social and spiritual welfare network found in the local (and primarily SAUDI FINANCED) mosques... It's no different than in the US or many other western nations, were we facing similar economic hopelessness... We turn to religion and spiritual consolation and reassurance. We're told that our suffering is a test of our faith in God, not the result of corruption of our lifestyle and leadership... Were we facing 30%+ unemployment, and crippling demographic baby booms with 70% of our population under the age of 25, I can pretty well predict that we'd see some Christian militants rising to the surface as well.. THAT'S WHY WE MUST BE INVOLVED IN THE MIDDLE EAST!! We simply have no other choice except to quarantine the entire region and cut them off from interaction with the rest of the world until they die off to "manageable" population levels, of finally realize (as in Iran) that fundamentalists are just as corrupt and inept as their secular leaders.. If you want to prevent Islamic fundamentalism, you have to give them "the good life".. You have to give them economic opportunity.. Hold their hands through the challenge of modernization, and ensure that religion and politics are segregated as much as possible.. We must be engaged in Iraq, and in other places in the region. And yes.. US soldiers (and those of other nations) will die.. But the few who die today fighting to create social and economic progression, will save the lives of potentially hundreds of thousands who might die later on when we no longer have the luxury of burying our heads in the sand as you seem intent upon doing.. Face it.. Islamic fundamentalism will not be wished away by you, me, or anyone else. It is a disease, and the cure often has many negative side effects, as well as considerable pain involved. Sorry Carl.. I wish it could be otherwise... And one day I'm sure you'll finally understand this reality.... But don't worry, I won't rub it in too much when you reach this epiphany.. Hawk

To: Bilow who wrote (112210)	8/21/2003 2:52:30 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

The Israelis tried it in Palestine. They failed too. Let me add something here... The Israelis gave the PA autonomy over 98% of their population... They offered to continue permitting Palestinians to continue working in the Israeli economy until final negotiations were carry out towards relinquishing more of the West Bank to the PA and deciding final boundaries. What FAILED Bilow, is that once Arafat had his provisional government, rather than a mere popular movement, he had no means by which to provide the economic alternative to Israeli jobs and markets. And Arafat couldn't enlist assistance from the Saudis or Kuwaitis because he stupidly chose to support Saddam during Desert Storm.. They cut him off.. and the palestinian people suffered.. Thus, Hamas increased its power at his expense. What will resolve the Palestinian issue is destroying Hamas, while at the same time moving towards economic disengagement with Israel and stabilized and accountable govermental processes... Achieve this and I'm sure that the investment community, as well as the US and other nations, will step forward to ameliorate the suffering of the Palestinian people... But THEY have to decide to make a choice as to what side their economic future is "buttered on".. Hamas is losing prestige as funding sources dry up... They will soon be heavily handicapped in providing the social welfare network that Saudi subsidization enable for them in years past... And that might explain part of their current desperation.. Hawk