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Politics : Moderate Forum -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: zonder who wrote (3525)	9/12/2003 9:26:03 AM
From: Dale Baker	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 20773

FWIW, many news organizations examined the disputed Florida ballots in excruciating detail. None could come up with a scenario that said Gore had won the state. If you know of one, please post a link, I would like to see it. Let's face it - if Gore wasn't such a wooden dweeb who lost his home state of Tennessee, much of this argument would be academic. Gore supporters lost their focus when the Florida circus began. Neither Gore nor Bush was a candidate I could get enthused about. But now we are stuck with a menace instead of just mediocrity.

To: zonder who wrote (3525)	9/12/2003 10:52:58 AM
From: Rambi	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 20773

There was an interesting program on the other night about the Arab mentality done by Thomas Friedman. A couple of years ago I read his From Beirut to Jerusalem trying to get some feel for the ME. I recommend that book to everyone for a good foundation of the conflict, and it bothers me a lot how many people are just not interested in actually reading something in depth. "Oh, that's boring, that's too long, I can watch tv and get it". This is a huge weakness, I think, in our own ability to become "globalized". The neocons seem to see the world as a sort of large missionary field rather than a shared mission with other cultures. And have you noticed that if you try to understand a people, offer any explanations, it is seen as making excuses, or even being a traitor? Anyway, a word that came up a lot in Friedman's interviews was "dignity". The Arab male feels humiliated-humiliated by their lack of jobs, their inability to do something of value, even something as simple as providing for their families, and the author of that for them is the Israelis, and by extension us. When Israel says how they have improved the lot of Arabs, it ignores the fact that when you treat someone like a second-class citizen whose own culture and values are infinitely inferior to your own, of course you breed resentment and anger. (I repeat- this is NO excuse for suicide bombings and terrorism, but an attempt at understanding that could possibly lead to solutions- why is that so difficult?) We are trying to impose our system on an Iraq that already resented us, that will see even the improvements, as long as we are still there and in charge, with the same anger and resentment. Since even people like me could anticipate the problems of postwar Iraq, I am still puzzled that Bush et al. seemed so ignorant. Worse, I suppose, is the idea that they DID understand and didn't give a rip. Ignorance or arrogance or a lethal mix of both? Whichever, it was doomed for disaster, and anyone who did even a minimal amount of study could have seen this coming. Even if you have the belief in your own superiority, you can't ignore the reality of other beliefs and the depth of their roots. Where did they think any framework for understanding our form of democracy would come from? When my older son was in kindergarten, the only question he missed on an IQ test was recognizing an ironing board. He had never seen one (poor deprived child). Without context, there can be no understanding. Thinking of ME people as dark-skinned North Americans who just wanna drink beer, watch football, vote, and sue their neighbour is a very big mistake. This made me laugh out loud. But also, for the ME to think that we are the above is also a big mistake and gets in the way of their understanding us and the good things we might be able to bring to the table. I know that because we are the powerful ones, it is more incumbent on us to make the effort, but there is a point where the Arab must stop blaming and assume some responsibility for his condition also. Everyone has to bring that willingness to the table. If there were a table. We need a new table. A round one.