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Politics : Politics for Pros- moderated -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (14671)10/31/2003 4:20:02 PM
From: Brian Sullivan  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793601
 
With prop 13 in California your property taxes are fixed at 1% of the purchase price of your home.

In Washington State (no state income tax and no capital gains tax) the property taxes are about 1.5% of the current value of you home.

Property values for homes in the coastal area of California (within 80 miles of the coast) are at least 50% more expensive than here is Washington. So I don't see this as a significant difference in revenue to the two states.

I was never a big fan of Prop 13, I think that they should have only had personal residences eligible for the tax break and I would vote for the reform measure.

But you are deluded if you think that changing Prop 13 will fix the sky high taxes problems in California.

You should probably look at state spending per capita and state tax revenue per capita and compare with Texas, Washington, Colorado to see which state is way out of whack.

Also ask yourself which state is totally run by the Democrats? While I support abortion rights for women, I think that California voters would do themselves a big favor by voting for a few Republicans for jobs like State Treasurer even if the candidate is pro-life. It's not like the State Treasurer is going to change this law.

Has there been any proposal in California to address the capital gaisn taxes rate problem. The fact that California residents have to pay a 24.3% capital gains rate while nearby states like Nevada and Washington investors only pay 15%. It is something that would drive out any rational investor from California.



To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (14671)10/31/2003 7:25:26 PM
From: StillHolding  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 793601
 
you weren't here in the late 70's when i was close to being forced to sell my house
prop. taxes were going up 20, 30% year after year and we had Jimmy Carter's inflation eating us alive at the grocery store
you could watch the price of coffee and staples go up by 2, 3 cents per week
and you couldn't borrow money or refi because the interest rates were so high
it killed the middle class who revolted against the political elite and voted in prop 13
you're either too young to know what happened or have a selective memory



To: Lizzie Tudor who wrote (14671)11/3/2003 5:11:51 PM
From: Original Mad Dog  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 793601
 
of course the real culprit is proposition 13

Or maybe, just maybe, the real problem is that your government in 1994-95 spent a total (on budget and "off budget") of $86,109,797,000, and in 2002-03 that number had jumped to $166,833,833,000. That's an increase of 93.75% in 8 years.

Source: lao.ca.gov
(Note: To get all expenditures you must select (All) for Type of Expenditure on Line 7)

If you prefer to limit this to the general fund, the increase is similarly dramatic:

1994-95: $41,961,466,000
2002-03: $78,141,742,000

That's an increase of 86.22% in 8 years

lao.ca.gov (Set line 7 to its default, "general fund")

Inflation from 1994 to 2002 was 21.39 percent (use calculator at data.bls.gov.

Seems pretty obvious to me that when you let your general fund expenditures go up by 86.22 percent in 8 years, and your total expenditures go up by 93.75 percent in 8 years, and during those same 8 years inflation is only 21.39 percent, that you've found the real culprit. Especially when the first six of those eight years included an unprecedented economic boom/bubble which ought to have reduced the dependence on government which typically marks surges in government spending.

Our total receipts are not that high, in fact I discovered recently that we are at 93-95 levels in total tax receipts now.

I'm usually pretty patient about it when people are a little off with their numbers, but I have informed you about this one already and you keep saying it for some reason. So I'll be blunt. You are absolutely wrong when you say that California is at 93-95 levels in total tax receipts now. Blatantly wrong. Wrong by a huge margin. I will now post all the numbers to you (again). If you say it again we will conclude you are just unconcerned with truth and factual accuracy.

California general fund revenues, as reported by the State itself, are substantially higher now than they were in the early to mid 90's. Here are the year by year numbers for general fund:

1993-94: $40,095,429,000
1994-95: $42,710,072,000
1995-96: $46,296,094,000
1996-97: $49,219,769,000
1997-98: $54,972,583,000
1998-99: $58,615,291,000
1999-00: $71,930,558,000
2000-01: $71,427,698,000
2001-02: $72,262,608,000
2002-03: $70,852,034,000
2003-04: $73,353,207,000

lao.ca.gov
Source: State of California, Legislative Analysts Office, see line 39 of spreadsheet if default of General Fund is selected)

If you select "All" sources of revenue instead of just general fund, you see a similar pattern:

1993-94: $52,383,825,000
1994-95: $54,941,755,000
1995-96: $59,266,071,000
1996-97: $62,831,323,000
1997-98: $69,423,852,000
1998-99: $74,280,887,000
1999-00: $87,535,733,000
2000-01: $88,419,043,000
2001-02: $89,804,090,000
2002-03: $86,132,255,000
2003-04: $94,246,749,000

lao.ca.gov
(select "All" for type of fund in line 5)

So what exactly is your basis for saying that "I discovered recently that we are at 93-95 levels in total tax receipts now"????

Are you prepared to admit that in fact receipts are up since 1993-95 by 70 or more percent? And that spending has increased in California during that same time period by in excess of 80 percent, four times the rate of inflation?

Or try to think of it this way: It took well over 100 years for California state spending from the general fund to reach 39 billion dollars annually. And it took another ten years for California state spending from the general fund to add another 39 billion dollars annually.

If you dump Prop. 13 and add another 39 billion dollars annually to California state spending in the next ten years, I suspect you will still have a major problem on your hands.