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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Machaon who wrote (503219)	12/3/2003 10:07:04 PM
From: Steve Dietrich	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

<<You can positively say that the huge amounts of untreated human waste that is dumped into our oceans and streams, EACH DAY, is not going to effect life on earth. And.... the tons of pollutants that are going up into our atmosphere and into the air we breath, is not going to effect life on earth. And..... the continuing destruction of our rain forrests, which by the way, produces the oxygen that we breath, will not effect life on earth. And..... the continuing destruction of animal and plant species is not going to effect life on earth.>> The Bible says "go forth and multiply" i doubt Johannes needs much more than that. Besides, he will probably also tell you, our time here is temporary. There's a great judgement coming, sooner than you know. And we won't need the Earth after that. Steve Dietrich

To: Machaon who wrote (503219)	12/4/2003 10:13:44 AM
From: Johannes Pilch	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

Who do you blame for the starvation? It really depends upon the circumstance: drought, mismanagement of resources, war, pestilence all can be involved. Overpopulation is not involved in any case because overpopulation does not exist. When people speak of overpopulation, they speak as if the term is objective, as if some magic population figure exists in the cosmos and that we humans have overrun that figure. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You can positively say that the huge amounts of untreated human waste that is dumped into our oceans and streams, EACH DAY, is not going to effect life on earth. I showed this post of yours to my thirteen year-old, asking him to point out its flaw. His response was this: “I wipe my nose and comb my hair. The drain in the sink is clogged. I must die.” You do here what far too many envirowackos do. You confuse the abuse of natural resources with the myth of overpopulation. We don’t have to dump untreated wastes into our water supply, whether the world contains 2 or 2 trillions people. And.... the tons of pollutants that are going up into our atmosphere and into the air we breath, is not going to effect life on earth. It is many of our practices that are the problem, not human numbers. Those practices, while in many cases allowing for explosive growth in human population, are abusive in principle. It is unreasonable and unethical to justify genocide or to force birth control to correct this problem, Robert. Principle requires we respect the rights of human entities under all circumstances, but that we change the practices that objectively abuse the resources upon which those entities depend. We should change the problem, not destroy human rights. And..... the continuing destruction of our rain forrests, which by the way, produces the oxygen that we breath, will not effect life on earth. This is not overpopulation, Robert. It is the practice of wanton deforestation. This problem may allow increases to human population, but these increases are not themselves the problem. You seem not to trust Natural Selection enough to rest in the fact that the earth is self-correcting. Deforestation has a built-in limitation. (grin) And..... the continuing destruction of animal and plant species is not going to effect life on earth. None of this has to do with overpopulation. The root of the problem is found in the abuse of resources. You seem to accept that abuse, instead blaming the problem on the fact that the abuse promotes human population. That is irrational. The Earth is a resource. If the world's leaders don't get serious about birth control, there won't be any more innocent humans. Well, if ‘getting serious’ means forcing people to contracept, then the world leaders will be wrong. You cannot legitimately correct problems by creating other problems. There also won't be any more live humans. Natural Selection works, Robert. Overpopulation does not exist. If resources are truly scarce, some humans will ultimately not find resources sufficient to allow reproduction. It is the way of the world and we have no right to change it by denying human rights merely to force people to live in accord with our thinking.

To: Machaon who wrote (503219)	12/4/2003 10:20:35 AM
From: CYBERKEN	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

You parrot the anti-humanity left's argument against continued human existence to a tee. Isn't it AMAZING how there is a direct correlation between the advent of LIBERTY and excess food production even in the most hopelessly "overpopulated" countries. The anti-humanity left has ALWAYS lived in denial of that economic reality, and continued to pump for tyrants and totalitarians. The left is the source of starvation-wherever and whenever it occurs...

To: Machaon who wrote (503219)	12/6/2003 7:04:20 PM
From: David Howe	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

<< You can positively say that the huge amounts of untreated human waste that is dumped into our oceans and streams, EACH DAY, is not going to effect life on earth. >> I don't see this as a significant problem. Fish dump their waste in the ocean and rivers and streams. Animals dump their untreated waste on the ground by the billions, every day. All living things create waste. Even plants dump waste on the ground and in the water every day. We need to control special situations like radioactive waste and nasty chemicals, but the normal byproducts of every day living shouldn't get us too worked up. IMO, Dave