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To: Raymond Duray who wrote (43748)	12/21/2003 1:21:04 PM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Ray, a whole lot of journalists visited the site of Saddam's capture, such as Fisk, who can hardly be called a shill of the USA Office of Disinformation [which has been disbanded, nudge, nudge]. Back at the beginning, when Saddam disappeared, my guess was that he would be right where they found him, hiding in a hole, by a little house, on the banks of the Tigris, near his Tikrit palace, where he spent years growing up. Bingo! It was a pretty good hidey hut, though lacking in preparation for such an event, which presumably seemed unlikely from the vantage point of the palace and an egocentric megalomaniac mind. Other people also have domineering, egocentric, megalomaniac minds and they too will be surprised by the outcomes of their lives. Recommended viewing in this regard = Dogville [saw it yesterday]. I'm an atheist, but the point of that Jesus bloke was to move away from the Roman Empire dominance hierarchy pecking order chimp and wolf-like social order of Emperor to lowest-ranked slave, and towards a libertarian concept of free exchange of value based on love with the recognition that we are embarked on a journey of integration and mutuality and away from a territorial, dog eat dog, hunter-gatherer, individual biological survivors in a red in tooth and claw world. I'd go so far as to say this is a cosmic law. We are in the process of creating God, or perhaps more modestly, a Godly node in our little corner of the galaxy. We don't know where we're going, but we're on our way. Ted Kaczynski didn't like it, wherever it is we are going. Neither did the Luddites. Nor the Amish. Come to think of it, it's like life in the Matrix and escape to the natural, raw, 3D world of physical materialism is very pleasant after time in the maw of the dark, satanic city streets and tunnels, neuronic cubicles, linked by cyberspace synapses in a giant World Wide Spider Hole Web. Not many Christians even think about this stuff and most are directly opposed to what I imagine Christianity was about. The Romans nailed him up because they didn't like the trend. Cunningly, they co-opted, embraced, changed and extended Christianity until it was a reflection of the Roman Empire and in the end, all that remained, based in St Peter's amazing monument. But hardly Christianity. George Bush claims to be a Christian. Snicker. So do the vast bulk of his supporters. Giggle. I will say though and credit where it's due, they have a cultural bias in the right direction of a live and let live nature, but with strong Dogville tendencies. I'd like to hear George Bush or said Christians expound at length on what their philosophical foundations are and how those ideas are manifest in their 3D lives and interactions with other people on the planet. I think they are more of the Roman Empire type, but moderated to the British Empire style of buying their way in rather than the Ghengkis Khan method which I gather involved little negotiation and trade. That's how I see it anyway. Merry Xmas, Mqurice PS: Check out Sony's little robots and see if you don't get the creeps Message 19617532 Ants are very much like those robots = mindless automatons. Humans aren't far removed. It's hard work to step out of our Goedelian self-referential introspective mathematically bound lives. Maybe impossible - "Thinking outside the box" is stuck within its own definitional slogan. While "Thinking outside the box" one should bear in mind my favourite slogan "Don't let a slogan do your thinking for you". Hmmm, Google gives me the creeps too. I thought I'd get a link to Goedel and It was ahead of me, finding one that encapsulates what I mean about this stuff... arxiv.org