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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (130805)	5/1/2004 2:14:16 AM
From: FaultLine	Respond to of 281500

Hello Sarmad Y. Hermiz, Message 20081751 Very well prepared post. Thanks for your thoughtful contribution. --ken/fl

To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (130805)	5/1/2004 9:53:23 AM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 281500

I only said that the daughter of the Kuwait ambassador made a deliberate lie to inflame US public opinion by saying in interviews that she eye-witnessed Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators and shipping the incubators to Baghdad. So she lied... There are a lot of people lying in Iraq about being "abused" by US soldiers, when in fact they are the ones abusing people by lobbing mortars, driving car bombs, or setting off IEDs amongst innocent Iraqis.. And I've seen nothing from you yet condemning those actions by those terrorists against civilians.. Is it because you're afraid it will subvert your apparent sympathy for suicide bombers targeting civilians in Israel? As for atrocities committed by Iraqi troops during the occupation of Kuwait, here are some of the orders they were given by Saddam.. such as killing all the men in a neighborhood should an Iraqi soldier be killed. iraqfoundation.org And here is a report on the atrocities committed during that occupation: iraqfoundation.org After the liberation, US Army war crimes investigators and lawyers conducted a comprehensive assessment of Iraqi war crimes. Kuwaiti authorities have since conducted even more comprehensive investigations. Between August 2nd, 1990, and the liberation of Kuwait, we now know that Iraqi forces killed approximately 1,000 civilians. Investigators documented at least two dozen torture sites in Kuwait City. Photographic evidence confirms torture by amputation or injury to various body parts, including eyes, ears, tongues, noses, lips and genitals. Electric shocks were applied to every sensitive body part. Electric drills were used to penetrate chests, legs or arms of victims. Some victims were killed in acid baths. Women were sexually assaulted. Members of families were sometimes forced to watch as other family members were dragged from their homes and shot dead by Iraqi forces. And this: In addition to the crimes against Kuwait and the Kuwaiti people, Iraqi forces took thousands of hostages and used many of them as human shields, which is a violation of the Geneva Conventions. A number of third-country nationals were murdered or sexually assaulted by Iraqi soldiers. All but 2 of the 21 US soldiers who were taken prisoner during the Gulf War were mistreated, in violation of the Geneva Conventions. More than 600 Kuwaitis remain unaccounted for to this day. The fact that Iraq continued to hold Iranian prisoners of war more than ten years after the end of the Iran-Iraq War gives us hope to this day that these Kuwaitis are alive. So when are you going to acknowledge that there WERE actual atrocities committed by Iraqi in Kuwait? Are you trying to imply that they weren't capable of such abuses? Who are you trying to kid?? Or is it that you secretly supported Iraq's invasion of Kuwait?? Are you some kind of closet Baathist, or Islamist? And US helicopters killed un-armed civilians as they retreated. Once again.. here's an example of your one-sided perception of the facts.. You're trying to assert that it was only civilians retreating out of Kuwait City and that the US bombed them intentionally... Dude... All of those Iraqis were retreating out of Kuwait City.. They were about to be surrounded and knew it.. So they fled in order to avoid being trapped.. Iraqi soldiers and civilians mixed it up to the point you couldn't tell who was who.. And they were loaded up with Kuwaiti "booty", Iraqi soldiers hauling butt in stolen Kuwaiti cars and buses.. And here are a few pictures of that "highway of death".. Can you show me some of those Iraiqi civilians you're talking about... The majority of what I see are soldiers, IN UNIFORM.. Warning.. VERY graphic: digitaljournalist.org Bottom line.. Civilians are supposed to be protected and segregated from military units. The Geneva convention forbids military units from deliberating using civilians as Human Shields. And when civilians in such situations are killed, it assigns blame to those who permitted (or intentionally placed) civilians in the area of combat. So keep that in mind Sarmad, should you ever find yourself in a similar situaton.. After the story was discovered to be a lie, several US senators said that story influenced them to vote for the resolution to wage war against Iraq in 1991. Who cares what excuse they want to give for wavering on what should have been an obvious vote.. The UNSC had passed a binding resolution for Iraq to immediately withdraw from Kuwait. <If the UN is going to mean ANYTHING, the very few binding resolutions that it has passed in its history MUST BE ENFORCED. That's the point.. The UN will cease to have any relevancy or credibility if it can't even enforce it's binding resolutions. I could care less if some Ambassador's daughter lied.. That's what politicians do... But you, and I, have to think for ourselves as to what's right and wrong. And it was right to overthrow Saddam... In fact, it was wrong NOT to overthrow him in 1991. By not doing so, we sent dictators like him a VERY STRONG message that he could get away with deliberate murder (on a mass scale) and no one will do a damn thing about it. Hawk

To: Sarmad Y. Hermiz who wrote (130805)	5/1/2004 11:41:35 PM
From: Bilow	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

Hi Sarmad Y. Hermiz; Re: "When people misspel my name, in a post, I jump to the conclusion it is deliberate, and stop reading." I have no doubt that Hawkmoon was only careless in misspelling your name. I do that sort of thing regularly, and it comes from typing too fast. I don't type letters, but instead type words at a time. The name "Sarmad" is not common in the US, so it's going to get confused by Americans quite regularly. My solution to this problem is that I use the "cut and paste" to grab the person's name correctly, and then, if it's hard to spell, I don't use it anywhere else without doing another cut and paste. -- Carl