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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (131738)	5/6/2004 10:40:30 AM
From: el_gaviero	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

In other words, it's okay to torture. Yeah sure. I think you ought to go back to your other country, Israel, where this kind of logic is accepted.

To: Neocon who wrote (131738)	5/6/2004 10:45:23 AM
From: Sam	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

I think that the photographs have had a special power because of their resemblance to fetishistic pornography. In that context, it appears very degrading. And I think they have a "special power" because, unlike oral testimony, they can't be denied unless someone claims photoshop magic. As long as the allegations could be plausibly denied, those who want to believe the denials will do so, and those who don't won't. People pretty much believe what they want to believe until they have truth rubbed in their faces. And even then some will deny the truth. And the others will react with "shock and horror." No "normal" person likes to think that what he thinks is an illusion. Especially if what they think is also flattering to themselves. Everyone knows this fundamental truth when they think about other people's denials and illusions.

To: Neocon who wrote (131738)	5/6/2004 12:54:13 PM
From: Hawkmoon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Certain things are reprehensible as ordinary interrogation techniques that would at least be mitigated if, for example, one were seeking information from bombers about their colleagues plans, and trying urgently to save lives. Let's just assume that we might find efficacy in such tactics to break down especially hard-core and intransigent "bad guys" who might have critical information that could save our servicemen, or Iraqis from impending harm... I certainly cannot understand why these silly @ssed morons took photographic evidence of their activities and seemed to be actually proud of, or at least enjoying, what they were doing. That's what I just find incredible... I don't think I could have a smile on my face in such a circumstance.. To be in such a state of mind graphically brings to mind the perception of absolute sadism... And one of things most repugnant to most Americans is that some of our soldiers actually believe that such sadism was something to be proud of... Something to actually capture and preserve for future days when they might desire some "fond memories" of their days in Iraq. That's what disturbs me the most... Hawk