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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (132621)	5/11/2004 1:07:52 PM
From: Dr. Id	Respond to of 281500

Why does is if illogical, or inaccurate, to assert that if he supports the insurgents, he supports their ideology?? Think about your response please, before you answer.. Hawk I have no idea how to respond to a question that doesn't make any sense. Care to think about your question before asking me to think about my response?

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (132621)	5/11/2004 1:10:44 PM
From: redfish	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 281500

"then why can't he support the American troops and the mission they are trying to accomplish, even if he doesn't support the President?" I am not in favor of nations giving in to unprovoked foreign invasion and occupation. I have no respect for a people who would do so ... conversely, I have respect for those who resist such aggression. I don't want Saddam back in power in Iraq, I want us the hell out of Iraq. I am in favor of every nation being free from the fear of unprovoked invasion and occupation, and being free to determine its own fate without outside interference. I want nothing to do with those who support wars of foreign aggression.

To: Hawkmoon who wrote (132621)	5/11/2004 2:23:16 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 281500

Hawk, you were asked, In reading your posts, is there ANYTHING that you're beloved administration has done wrong? (Your president couldn't think of a single mistake...can you?) I think that you could think of some "mistakes." In reading your posts, however, I think that the mistakes you saw would be along the lines of doing "more of the same and do it harder." Some people think that's a "patriotic" view that "supports our troops and supports America." In one sense it is, but in the long it is not. "America" is more of an idea than a geography. If you had a single island of freedom and a workable democracy in any other place it would still be shining light in a world history of flawed governments that ruled for the benefit of those with power at the expense of everyone else. That's not the case today since we have many democratic governments throughout the world, we just happen to be the oldest and the most powerful. The point I'm making, however, is that the America that I love is not solely a place or a people, it's a living idea that's wrapped up in our constitution, our Bill or Rights, our effective court system, an educated and informed pool of voters that share my love for freedom and justice, a nation that has always accepted the rights of other nations and a whole package that constitutes what it is that makes America "America." It's that "America" that's threatened by the Bush Administration's attacks on the protections of the Bill of Rights, on the deliberate attempts at disinformation to fool the public and intimidate the press regarding the basis for and the conduct of the war in Iraq, on verbal attacks on the judicial system that are designed to undermine confidence in our system of justice, on deliberate attempts to withhold information from Congress and to siphon more power to the executive branch, on deliberate attempts to polarize the country and demonize the "liberal" opposition as barely "American," and on policies that blur the lines between self defense versus militaristic intervention in the sovereign affairs of other nations. That's why many of us who are worried about terrorism and the proliferation of wmds, are nonetheless MORE worried about the erosion of critically important rights that were paid for with blood and are now being eroded by the fear of losing blood. So all of us, including those of us who support the Bush war in Iraq, should at least be aware of what it is that makes this a country worth dying for, and what it is that's changing about America in the panic and overreaction that has followed 9/11. After all, we don't want to wake up sober some day and take a good look at what we'll be able to do to take back the rights we gave away when those in power told us how scared we needed to be.