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Politics : Foreign Affairs Discussion Group -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136484)6/13/2004 12:42:16 PM
From: quehubo  Respond to of 281500
 
Maybe Mary does not realize that Saudia Arabia, Iraq and Russia have something in common, we are very dependent on these nations exporting oil. Russia is #2 exporter behind SA, but they have peaked.



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136484)6/14/2004 10:44:05 AM
From: carranza2  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Nadine, not everyone knows about the TotalFinaElf contracts that Saddam had awarded which have been on ice since the war.

Or want to know. But, hey, they say somewhere that facts are stupid things. Here are a few facts for the doubters to mull on:

globalpolicy.org

One day after President Bush's demand that Iraq comply with United Nations arms control resolutions, three French parliamentary deputies flew to Iraq on what they described as a personal visit to urge Baghdad to comply with the demands.

The visit set off a political storm in France, where much is riding on the outcome of the diplomatic struggle over Iraq. While a humanitarian gesture, the trip also illustrated in part how countries are positioning themselves for an end of trade penalties. One of the three legislators, Thierry Mariani, 44, of President Jacques Chirac's Union for a Presidential Majority, told French television that the purpose of the trip was to urge Iraqi compliance with the United Nations' demands. But he was also quoted in Le Monde as justifying the trip with "the defense of French economic interests in Iraq."

Last year, France ranked No. 1 among European countries doing business with Iraq, with $1.5 billion in trade, followed by Italy, with $1 billion. Among the countries that trade with Iraq under the oil-for-food program, France ranked third, with $3.1 billion in trade since the program's start 1996. French trade under the program was surpassed only by Russia, with $4.3 billion, and Egypt, according to United Nations diplomats.

The French oil giant TotalFinaElf has the largest position in Iraq, with exclusive negotiating rights to develop Majnoon, a field on the Iranian border with estimated reserves of 10 billion barrels, and Bin Umar, with an estimated production potential of 440,000 barrels a day, according to oil industry executives.

The biggest deals after that were expected to go to ENI of Italy, to develop the Nassiriyah field at a cost of $1.9 billion. Moscow has a $3.5 billion, 23-year agreement with Baghdad to rehabilitate several Iraqi fields that would vastly benefit a Russian oil consortium led by LukOil, they said.

At the United Nations, France has sought to buffer Iraq from American ire. Baghdad's recent pledge to accept United Nations inspectors won praise from French diplomats, who have been insistent on a two-stage approach to resolutions that would delay a military threat. The preferred French outcome would be a resolution demanding unfettered inspections, followed by a measure backing the use of force, depending on Iraq's response.

Mr. Mariani and the other two deputies, Didier Julia, 68, and Eric Diard, 37, are from the Gaullist wing of Mr. Chirac's party. The minister for the environment in Mr. Chirac's government, Roselyne Bachelot-Narquin, is the founder of a French-Iraqi friendship society.

Many experts contend out when a government is brought down by trade penalties, the bureaucracy is likely to be left intact. While those close to power do not survive, the trade bureaucracy consists of technicians, not politicians, and the calculation is that they will continue doing business with past trade partners.

"A lot of countries are already positioning themselves," said Barbara Oegg, a trade expert at the Institute for International Economics in Washington.

Russia has made no secret of its desire to cultivate Iraq. Baghdad owes Moscow $8 billion in debt incurred before the Gulf War, and has used trade under the oil-for-food program to curry Moscow's favor, dangling oil investment deals to be signed after penalties were lifted.

In Britain this month, the Middle East Association, a trade group, wrote Prime Minister Tony Blair expressing "deep misgivings" about the damage to trade that military action in Iraq could produce, according to David Lloyd, a spokesman for the group. The Middle East Association is seeking to send 10 to 15 British companies to the Baghdad trade fair in November, which would be the first time that British companies have attended the fair since 1989.

The French legislators' trip was organized by a consulting company, the French Office for the Development of Industry and Culture. According to its director, Francois Girard-Hautbout, it seeks to promote Gaullist pro-Arab policies, including economic ties with the region.

Under the six-year-old United Nations oil-for-food program, Iraq determines where it will shop using the proceeds from oil sales.

Roland Bareilles, a founder and honorary president of the French-Iraqi Association for Economic Cooperation, said France had assumed the first rank among Iraq's trade partners after the start of the oil-for-food program, but fell back recently to Russia's benefit. "Contracts are part of their political strategy," he said of Iraqi officials.

Among French companies, Peugeot sells cars in Iraq while Alcatel landed several contracts to rebuild the country's battered telephone system. Klaus Wustrack, an Alcatel spokesman, said Alcatel originally installed the telephone system in the 1980's. But he emphasized that all the contracts fell within the oil-for-food project.

At Peugeot, a spokeswoman said the company delivered 500 cars to Iraq in the first half of the year under the oil-for-food program, about the number it delivered annually before the Gulf War.

Some trade transactions have set off greater disagreement. In March, Nabel Musawi of the London-based Iraqi National Congress told ABC News that Baghdad bought seven refrigerated trucks from Renault Trucks, the French company that is owned by Volvo of Sweden, and converted them into biological arms laboratories. Bernard Lancelot, a Renault Trucks spokesman, said the deal was approved under the oil-for-food program. "What the client does with the trucks later," he said, "we don't know."

globalpolicy.org



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136484)6/14/2004 11:42:19 AM
From: Mary Cluney  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
<<<In case you haven't noticed, these countries are our rivals, not our allies.>>>

All these countries have signed on to WOT. France is part of NATO. We have a treaty with NATO and all countries belonging to NATO. We are not going to break up NATO.

Until very recently the overwhelming majority of the people in France liked the United States. I don't know what the situation is today, I still think the overwhelming majority of the French peolpe still like the United States. How they feel about GWB and his administration is something entirely different.

<<<The billions they could have gotten from Saddam would have been a pure benefit to them>>>

The few billion dollars that some French made illegally has nothing to do with France the country.

It would be the same as to say that the interests of Haliburton is the same as the interests of the United States.

I have nothing against Haliburton (I was once an investor), but Haliburton's interests are to their shareholders foremost. When I was a shareholder I would root for them to get contracts because they knew the right people in government who gave out those contracts. That is all part of business intelligence. If they did something illegal - that happens (let the judicial process take its course) but it does not have anything to do with the United States as a country - and the people of the United States should not be held accountable.

<<<Any poke in the eye that they could deliver to the US would be a benefit to them, too.>>>

That is an opinion where it would be almost impossible for you to build a logical and well constructed case to support.

<<<How else do you explain their last-ditch scramble to protect Saddam in 2002 - 2003?>>>

How many ways can I say this. Saddam Hussein had no friends in the international community. He had no friends in the Islamic world. He had no friends within the terrorist network. He had no friends within his own family. He killed his in laws. His personal doctor hated him. H couldn't trust his wife or his kids.

<<<France, Russia and China were openly opposed to the sanctions and were working to lift them. >>>

That is 3/5 of the SC. If they were that friendly with Saddam Hussein, how did we get the sanctions in place in the first place?

Just because you (that's us - the United States) is the leader, the strongest and the best, does not mean everyone will go along with you. But, you have the best chance of anyone to get everyone to go along.

WRT UNSC, the Brits are with us, the Russians can be co-opted (as Bush is doing with Putin right now), France can be put into a position to go along with us. With everyone on board, the Chinese, if they don't climb on board, will at least abstain (that is their MO).

It's not easy being the world leader. If we aren't going to do it, who is?



To: Nadine Carroll who wrote (136484)6/14/2004 11:59:47 AM
From: Ilaine  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 281500
 
Rivals, not allies? Let's see, I use Bic pens, Michelin tires, put Lukoil gas in my car, drink Stolli --

I think the world is more complicated than the binary assessment of "rival or ally". We're too interconnected on too many levels -- rivals on some levels, allies on others.